Favorite Weapon vs Suitability

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:57 am

Just traded ideas with another manager. Now I want to throw this out and get some general thoughts from everyone else. My initial questions revolved around finding a warrior's favorite rhythms and weapons. A big, convoluted mess!! For me, I thought that discovering the fighter's fav weapon would be easier. It's not proving so easy to me, mostly because of the design / weapon stat requirements that limit my choices. Then, it was suggested that I try different weapons, regardless of suitability. Which sounds great! I'm going to run with this idea. Yet... I'm still wondering...

Will a fighter GET a significant increase in critical attacks using a weapon that they're unsuited for IF it is well-suited to the style and/or IF it is their favorite weapon??

a) In other words, is it worth using a weapon that a fighter is OBVIOUSLY not suited for just to find its favorite?

b) Does that weapon have to be well-suited for the style? (I would think so, though there are some who can point to exceptions. For instance, I have read that the BS works okay for bashers, which surprised me.)

example: A Basher with an 11 ST & 7 DF trying to use a BA or GA or Maul or Halbard?

That's just my example -- the question is more important (overall) and broader than the example. Wink

I think this is the sort of question that some of you can get your teeth into, and it has doubtless been brought up before -- sorry if I'm dredging up 'old news'.

Anyway -- what's the consensus? Confused

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Apr 15, 2004 Posts: 2958

My thoughts on the subject:

A weapon can only be a favorite if it is well-suited to the style.

So while you might get good results using BS or BA with a Basher (both marginally suited weapons), they can not ever be a Basher's natural favorite weapon.

A warrior does not need to have the stat requirements to use a weapon in order for it to be the favorite.

ADM is filled with SZ 3 ML favorite Bashers, 11 DF EP favorite LUs, and the like. It can be worthwhile to try weapons that they don't have the attributes for, but lacking the stats will still hurt the warrior's performance.

Favorite weapons aren't everything.

If your 13 ST/9 SZ/7 DF BA looks flat with the WH and MA, it is reasonable to try the ML, but I probably wouldn't bother trying the HL or the GS because he is missing too many stats. Even though the BS can't be the warrior's favorite, it might still be the best weapon for basic because your Basher has the stats for it and it can throw superior slashing crits.

If you find something that works, keep using it!

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:34 am

Okay, I figured that the style determined the range of possible favorites. Good, I'm on track there.

Now, how often do you use a weapon before you decide to chuck it? What do you look for?

If the fighter doesn't throw a single critical attack (win or lose) after three or four fights, do most of you guys stick with the weapon (assuming it's successful) or do you keep looking for your Excalibur?

Or, a OAB said: Favorite weapons aren't everything.

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:19 pm

KidArcane wrote:

If the fighter doesn't throw a single critical attack (win or lose) after three or four fights, do most of you guys stick with the weapon (assuming it's successful) or do you keep looking for your Excalibur?
[/b]

I don't know, KidArcane. My latest graduate is a slasher who fought most of his career with a scimitar. I switch to a hatchet in his later fights because he made more crits and still won. Did I find his favourite? No. His favourite was the scimitar.

Back when there was a Monuntial arena, one of my strikers was in a rivalry with a striker on another team. Each time these guys met, it was a crit fest. My guy was ambidextrous, so he used two scimitars. The other guy used a war hammer. They received their invites to the isle a few turns apart, and I had a chance to buy the rival. The rival's favourite was a great axe. My guy's favourite was a long sword. Neither fighter used these weapons during their crit fest.

So, I guess throwing a lot of crits doesn't mean crap.

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:57 am

One Armed Bandit wrote:

My thoughts on the subject:

A weapon can only be a favorite if it is well-suited to the style.

So while you might get good results using BS or BA with a Basher (both marginally suited weapons), they can not ever be a Basher's natural favorite weapon.

A warrior does not need to have the stat requirements to use a weapon in order for it to be the favorite.

ADM is filled with SZ 3 ML favorite Bashers, 11 DF EP favorite LUs, and the like. It can be worthwhile to try weapons that they don't have the attributes for, but lacking the stats will still hurt the warrior's performance.

Favorite weapons aren't everything.

If your 13 ST/9 SZ/7 DF BA looks flat with the WH and MA, it is reasonable to try the ML, but I probably wouldn't bother trying the HL or the GS because he is missing too many stats. Even though the BS can't be the warrior's favorite, it might still be the best weapon for basic because your Basher has the stats for it and it can throw superior slashing crits.

If you find something that works, keep using it!

So clearly and thoroughly stated, OAB. Our sentiments exactly.

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:00 am

An article from DM93 on the topic.

FINDING FAVORITE WEAPONS – THE CONSORTIUM WAY

Does your battle axe “slice across with tree-felling power”? Or your long sword unleash a “piercingly accurate thrust”? Or your quarterstaff attack with “berserker fury”? No? Read on.
A common discussion in D2 is about finding a favorite weapon. Why would anyone want to find the warrior’s favorite weapon? Why? Simply because a warrior usually fights much better with his favorite in his hand.
Upon graduation to The Isle (Lord Protectorship) each warrior is informed of his birthright favorites. (Called “faves” by most of us.) That includes, the favorite weapon, the favorite rhythm, and with luck some favorite tactics and/or tactic learns. Warriors also usually fight better when they are on their “faves”.
This article is only about the weapon part of a warrior’s faves. If one could fine a warrior’s faves early, one would presumably be giving their warrior a nice advantage in fights. So how does one find a favorite weapon? Actually, you cannot “find“ it, merely surmise it from the data.
Consortium managers tend to find their warrior’s fave weapon appx. 35-50% of the time before graduation. (Some of the time, the fave is just not discernable; some of the time, the estimate is just plain incorrect.)
The Consortium method is as follows:
Chart/record these numbers from each fight:
Weapon used
Swings
Crits
Extra value hits
Then record the data by weapon as follows: crits/swings/EHV. For example, a striker may have tried three weapons with these results:
BS 0-21-1
SS 3-13-2
SC 1-19-0
The more crits per swing, the more likely you have found a favorite weapon. (Bear in mind that a favorite weapon is not the ONLY reason one crits more. Factors like experience, attack skill quantity, strategy levels, etc., also come in to play.) Even if it is not the fave, it is certainly a better performing weapon, and ought to be considered for a lot of use. It is thought that if a weapon is performing well, the favorite weapon is probably that weapon, or one of a similar type. For example, the SS above looks most favorable, so there is some possibility that the fave is that SS or another lunging type weapon, such as a LO or LS.
One of the more common questions is “Just what is a crit?” We Consortiumites define it as a swing which “reads with extra ferociousness”! For example, using the SS above – lunges with the SS is a normal swing while “shortspear moves like angry lightning is a critical swing.
To alleviate any questions of what is a critical swing, below are listed the best active list of criticals per weapon. The Weapons Criticals List ………………………………
Broadsword (BS)
Brings his BROADSWORD down in a horrible cleaving motion!
BROADSWORD arcs from overhead with maximum momentum and force!
BROADSWORD whips horizontally across with a deadly timed power!
Charges forward, BROADSWORD whistling through the air!
Hacks at her (BROADSWORD at her) foe with untamed berserker energy!
Makes a ferocious backhanded assault with her BROADSWORD!
Sweeps his BROADSWORD in a sudden, vicious assault!
Unleashes a horrifying attack (with her BROADSWORD), straining every muscle for power!
Battle Axe (BA)
Brings his BATLE AXE hurtling down with devastating force!
Brings his BATTLE AXE slicing across with tree-felling power!
BATTLE AXE arcs forward with a terrible destructive energy!
Makes an all-out cleaving attack with his BATTLE AXE!
Slices up wickedly with the gleaming blade of his BATTLE AXE!
Sweeps his BATTLE AXE in a deadly assault on his opponent!
Unleashes an incredible full-bladed chop with her BATTLE AXE!
Whirls his BATTLE AXE from overhead, attacking with demonic fury!
Dagger (DA)
Attacks, his DAGGER wielded with an unnerving precision!
DAGGER flashes as he takes a sudden vicious slash at his foe!
DAGGER strikes instantly as his opponent leaves an opening!
Drives his DAGGER in a forward slash!
Ducks low and takes a wicked upward slice with his DAGGER!
Leaps forward, DAGGER thrusting with malevolence and surety!
Makes a cruel and cunning underhanded attack with his DAGGER!
Strikes overhead, DAGGER ripping with incredible swiftness!
Whirls and strikes backhandedly with his DAGGER!
Epee (EP)
Attacks from low guard, EPEE slicing wickedly upwards at her foe!
Blurs forward, EPEE stabbing suddenly with blinding speed!
Dives forward, EPEE stabbing repeatedly with his charge!
EPEE leaps forward suddenly from a high guard overhead!
EPEE strikes forward in a clash of cold steel!
Lunges forward, EPEE thrusting with incredible speed and accuracy!
Makes an incredible flesh-splitting slash with her EPEE!
Whips his EPEE blade back and forth as if to slash his foe to ribbons!
Fist (FI)
Attacks, FISTS punching with piston-like horse felling power!
Attacks his foe with a pinpoint accurate ELBOW!
Dives forward, FISTS driving at his opponent with menacing fury!
Explodes into a deadly double OPEN HAND strike!
HANDS flash forward, jabbing fiercely at her surprised foe!
Hammers down a ferocious FOREARM smash!
Hauls back and spins into a near-lethal ELBOW smash!
PUNCHES from the waist with an unbelievable quickness!
Spins around and hammers a tremendous ELBOW smash towards his foe!
Throws a rock-fisted PUNCH of incredible felling power
Kick (FI)
LEG smashes outward, kicking with tremendous force!
Throws a piston like SIDE KICK at his opponent!
Leaps into the air taking a vicious flying KICK at his opponent!
Unleashes a bone-crushing KICK of incredible power!
Focuses all of his skill and power into a devastating KICK!
Howls as he snaps a full force KICK at his foe!
Spins, throwing a devastating WHEEL KICK at his foe!
Attacks, LEGS flying in an unbelievable double footed kick!
Great Axe (GA)
Attacks, bringing his GREAT AXE down with bone-splitting force!
Brings his GREAT AXE ferociously slashing downward from his head!
Cuts powerfully forward, his full weight behind his GREAT AXE!
GREAT AXE slices at his opponent with concentrated hatred!
Makes a malevolent attack with his gleaming GREAT AXE!
Muscles ripple as his GREAT AXE cuts through the air!
Throws his entire weight behind his GREAT AXE in a mighty assault!
Greatsword (GS)
Attacks, bringing his GREATSWORD down with bone-splitting force!
Attacks, swinging his GREATSWORD with untamed savagery!
Brings his GREATSWORD hurtling downward from above his head!
Brings his GREATSWORD smashing outward in a vicious attack!
Hacks mercilessly at his foe with his GERATSWORD!
GREATSWORD arcs forward in an attempt to cut his foe in two!
Muscles ripple as he makes a powerful swing with his GREATSWORD!
Whirls his GREATSWORD overhead, attempting a bashing attack!
Halberd (HL)
Attacks, HALBARD sweeping with devastating momentum!
Batters mercilessly at his foe with his HALBARD!
Flashes outward, attacking with horrifying power!
Grimly unleashes an incredible attack with his HALBARD!
Hurls his body behind a full length sweep with his HALBARD!
Jerks her HALBARD brutally upward in a wicked thrusting arc!
Lashes out with the full length of her HALBARD!
Powers her HALBARD to smash at her foe with untamed fury!
Smashes her HALBARD down executioner-style from overhead!
Hatchet (HA)
Backhands mightily, revealing the flash of her HATCHET spike!
Chops savagely downward with her trusty HATCHET!
Hacks viciously downward with the blade of his HATCHET!
HATCHET flashes with snake-like speed and accuracy!
Lashes out brilliantly with his HATCHET!
Makes a HATCHET swing that takes the crowd’s breath away!
Twists his HATCHET aiming a malevolent chop at the defense!
Unleashes a HATCHET attack that absolutely stuns the fans!
Large Shield (LG)
Barrels forward, LARGE SHIELD smashing before him as the crowd roars!
Cruelly attempts to pulverize his foe with his LARGE SHIELD!
Cruelly attempts to batter her foe with her LARGE SHIELD!
Rest same as other shields
Longspear (LS)
Catapults forward, LONGSPEAR flashing in a deadly assault!
Charges forward, LONG SPEAR thrusting with murderous power!
Is making a deliberate attempt to impale her enemy with her LONG SPEAR!
LONG SPEAR strikes forward with incredible swiftness and power!
Lunges into an attack, his LONGSPEAR flying with incredible force!
Makes a devastating thrust, LONG SPEAR blurring in the attack!
Makes a lighting thrust with his LONGSPEAR! (*)
Unleashes a murderous thrust that brings the crowd to their feet!
Longsword (LO)
Catapults forward, LONGSWORD stabbing cruelly at his foe!
Feints, then springs viciously forward with his LONGSWORD!
Lashes out with her longsword in a murderous thrust!
Leaps into an incredible flesh-splitting lunge with his LONGSWORD!
LONGSWORD lunges forward with a flash of cold, cruel steel!
Strikes forward with his LONGSWORD, all his weight behind his blow!
Thrusts her LONGSWORD, brilliantly timing her opponent’s motion!
Thrusts his LONGSWORD, cleverly timing his opponent’s motion!
Thrusts his LONGSWORD forward with an unbelievably deadly force!
Unleashes her LONGSWORD in a piercingly accurate thrust!
Maul (ML)
Bats murderously at his foe with his MAUL!
Bludgeons his MAUL with terrible savagery!
Makes a devastatingly powerful sweep with his MAUL!
Smashes furiously downward with his MAUL!
Sweeps his MAUL in a tremendous bone-crushing arc!
Throws his weight behind is MAUL in an all-out assault!
Medium Shield (ME)
Barrels forward, MEDIUM SHIELD smashing before him as the crowd roars!
Cruelly attempts to batter his foe with his MEDIUM SHIELD!
Cruelly attempts to flatten his foe with his MEDIUM SHIELD!
Smashes his MEDIUM SHIELD wickedly forward toward his foe!
Sweeps his MEDIUM SHIELD in a sudden, unexpected assault!
Runs forward, seeking to pummel his opponent with his MEDIUM SHIELD!
Morning Star (MS)
Attacks, whirling the MORNING STAR with tremendous Force!
Attempts to smash at his opponent with his MORNING STAR!
Cleverly tries to break her foes defense with her MORNING STAR!
MORNING STAR whines with unstoppable velocity!
Snaps the MORNING STAR forward in a deadly assault!
Swings his MORNING STAR with deadly intent at his target
Whips his MORNING STAR downward in a remorseless arc!
Whips his MORNING STAR downward in a vicious power smash!
Quarterstaff (QS)
Bats murderously at his foe with his QUARTERSTAFF!
Brings his QUARTERSTAFF smashing ferociously downward!
Impresses everyone with a masterful thrust of her QUARTERSTAFF!
Jabs murderously at her foe with the tip of her QUARTERSTAFF!
Lashes out with her QUARTERSTAFF in a lightning quick assault!
Surprises everyone with a masterful swing of his QUARTERSTAFF!
Sweeps her QUARTERSTAFF in a tremendous bone-crushing arc!
Whirls her QUARTERSTAFF, attacking with berserker fury!
Scimitar (SC)
Attacks, her SCIMITAR wielded with malevolence!
Ducks low, her SCIMITAR slicing suddenly upwards!
Leaps forward, swinging her SCIMITAR into a veritable wall of blades!
Leaps into the air, bringing his SCIMITAR down in a powerful slash!
Leaps into the air in a furious slash!
Leaps into the air taking a furious slash with his SCIMITAR!
makes a brilliant twisting thrust with his SCIMITAR!
times a devilish cunning attack, SCIMITAR leaping with deadly force!
twists into a tremendous cutting attack with his SCIMITAR!
Turns into a furious whirlwind of blades as her SCIMITAR leaps forward!
SCIMITAR lunges with awesome cutting power!
Small Shield (SM)
Attempts to swat at his foe with his SMALL SHIELD! (NOT a crit)
Barrels forward, SMALL SHIELD smashing before him as the crowd roars!
Charges forward, trying to run down his opponent with his SMALL SHIELD!
Cruelly attempts to batter his foe with his SMALL SHIELD!
Cruelly attempts to bruise his foe with his SMALL SHIELD!
Runs forward, seeking to pummel his opponent with his SMALL SHIELD!
Sweeps his SMALL SHIELD in a clever backhanded assault!
Sweeps his SMALL SHIELD in a sudden, unexpected assault!
Smashes his SMALL SHIELD wickedly forward towards his foe!
Short Spear (SS)
Dives into a powerful lunge with its SHORT SPEAR!
Lunges past its foe and brings its SHORT SPEAR into a brilliant backhand stab!
Makes a menacing underthrust with her SHORT SPEAR!
Rushes her foe, her SHORT SPEAR underthrusting malevolently!
SHORT SPEAR leaps forward with incredible swiftness and power!
SHORT SPEAR moves like angry lightning!
SHORT SPEAR strikes with blinding quickness!
Springs with full extension with her SHORT SPEAR!
Shortsword (SH)
Focuses his energy in a powerful upward stab with his SHORTSWORD!
Hacks viciously downward with her SHORTSWORD!
Lashes his SHORTSWORD cruelly at a break in the defense!
Makes a clever stab with his SHORTSWORD that stuns the fans!
Stabs powerfully upward with his SHORTSWORD!
Thrusts his SHORTSWORD forward with his full force behind it!
Thrusts his SHORTSWORD in a lightning move at the defense!
SHORTSWORD leaps forward in a bloodthirsty assault on his foe!
Sweeps his SHORTSWORD in a tight, powerful slash!
War Flail (WF) “Whiffle”
Attacks, his WAR FLAIL whistling with a frightful acceleration!
Cracks his cruelly barbed WAR FLAIL with tremendous force!
Hauls back and power smashes with his WAR FLAIL!
Lashes out, WAR FLAIL chains curling with a hideous power!
Takes a tremendous swipe at his foe with his WAR FLAIL!
Sweeps his WAR FLAIL in a vicious flailing arc!
Unleashes a murderous full force attack with his WAR FLAIL!
WAR FLAIL screams in the rush of this assault!
War Hammer (WH)
Attacks, his WARHAMMER wielded with pile-driving precision!
Backhands, swinging his HAMMER-SPIKE savagely at his target!
Brings his WAR HAMMER crashing downward with horrific power!
Is attempting to smash through the defense with his WAR HAMMER!
Launches a brilliant attack with his WAR HAMMER!
Makes a lightning-quick backhand smash with her WAR HAMMER!
Sweeps his WAR HAMMER downward in a crudely brutal smash!
Sweeps his WAR HAMMER downward in a vicious power slash!
Takes a tremendous swipe at his foe with his WAR HAMMER!
Good luck in your weapon selection decision making as it just may make the difference between a win or a loss.
The Producer of Sports Flicks (Consortium affiliated)

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:38 pm

Okay okay!! Thoroughly pounded into my head!!

Thanks Very Happy

This helps!