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Duel2 :: View topic - Andorak: Andorian? Or only in name?
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tripwire wrote:
But the intent of the invasion - to bully/force the locals away from their life-long principles simply did not happen.

Hrmm, I was part of the "invasion" for a short time until finances dictated otherwise and that was not how I saw the intent at all.

The intent at least from myself and a few others was that no one in any arena, would tell me how to run my team in any way shape or form. Not how to challenge or how to play just because I was in an arena with "rules". That was the biggest issue. People were telling those that entered the arena that there were rules to be followed and if they didn't follow them there would be repricussions. It had nothing to do with changing the way current teams played in that arena or how they held thier honor. The way we were proving a point was to down-challenge, try to kill, and pretty much do whatever we wanted not to simply do it but to show we would not bow down to the "orders" of anyone in any arena.


Perhaps you were one of the few that had only personal intentions, but from all the hukkabaloo prior to the event, you were in the minority. Anyway, luck at you.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The Consortium wrote:
Tripwire wrote:
But the intent of the invasion - to bully/force the locals away from their life-long principles simply did not happen.

Hrmm, I was part of the "invasion" for a short time until finances dictated otherwise and that was not how I saw the intent at all.

The intent at least from myself and a few others was that no one in any arena, would tell me how to run my team in any way shape or form. Not how to challenge or how to play just because I was in an arena with "rules". That was the biggest issue. People were telling those that entered the arena that there were rules to be followed and if they didn't follow them there would be repricussions. It had nothing to do with changing the way current teams played in that arena or how they held thier honor. The way we were proving a point was to down-challenge, try to kill, and pretty much do whatever we wanted not to simply do it but to show we would not bow down to the "orders" of anyone in any arena.


Perhaps you were one of the few that had only personal intentions, but from all the hukkabaloo prior to the event, you were in the minority. Anyway, luck at you.


Let's just drop it. The people who were 'invaders' just didn't get it, and may never get it. Their opinions of what Aruaki said and did were all blown out of proportion and they may never learn the subtle difference between 'orders' or 'rules' vs. 'culture' and 'respect'. 'Larqs (assuming the invaders played in that style, which was part of their point in being there) just don't prefer to listen, they litigate.

Just so people don't get all huffy, I'll give an example. I have, every now and then, stated that people can play any way they wish, wherever they wish, and there is nothing I can do about it. Acknowledging that, I still stick to professing the way we prefer to play in Aruak. I don't ever recall any invaders or 'Larqs saying they understood our view point and would keep their style of play in their own arenas.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Adie wrote:
The Consortium wrote:
Tripwire wrote:
But the intent of the invasion - to bully/force the locals away from their life-long principles simply did not happen.

Hrmm, I was part of the "invasion" for a short time until finances dictated otherwise and that was not how I saw the intent at all.

The intent at least from myself and a few others was that no one in any arena, would tell me how to run my team in any way shape or form. Not how to challenge or how to play just because I was in an arena with "rules". That was the biggest issue. People were telling those that entered the arena that there were rules to be followed and if they didn't follow them there would be repricussions. It had nothing to do with changing the way current teams played in that arena or how they held thier honor. The way we were proving a point was to down-challenge, try to kill, and pretty much do whatever we wanted not to simply do it but to show we would not bow down to the "orders" of anyone in any arena.


Perhaps you were one of the few that had only personal intentions, but from all the hukkabaloo prior to the event, you were in the minority. Anyway, luck at you.


Let's just drop it. The people who were 'invaders' just didn't get it, and may never get it. Their opinions of what Aruaki said and did were all blown out of proportion and they may never learn the subtle difference between 'orders' or 'rules' vs. 'culture' and 'respect'. 'Larqs (assuming the invaders played in that style, which was part of their point in being there) just don't prefer to listen, they litigate.

Just so people don't get all huffy, I'll give an example. I have, every now and then, stated that people can play any way they wish, wherever they wish, and there is nothing I can do about it. Acknowledging that, I still stick to professing the way we prefer to play in Aruak. I don't ever recall any invaders or 'Larqs saying they understood our view point and would keep their style of play in their own arenas.


From what I've heard most of the invaders felt the same way Tripwire did. I think you are insulting our, Delarquans', intelligence by saying we don't and may never get it. I understand it just fine because it happens all the time. The Aruaki ran their mouths and got their asses kicked. Nothing wrong with that, most of us have experienced that same type of situation. There are no differences between rules, orders, cultural taboos, and respect for social laws when there are rewards and punishments for agreeing or disagreeing with them. Furthermore, for one to properly "litigate" they would, indeed, have to listen. I think everyone understood the cultural viewpoints very well and they chose to come in and prove that just because the Aruaki highly touted these "courtesies" didn't mean you had to abide by them. Enough of the sobbing. The next person that declares their side won better post some numbers because it's obvious that no one was mentally broken for a prolonged period. In closing I would just like to say that I, personally, find it highly amusing that the Andorian elite always resort to playing "eye for an eye" when their "honorable" methods don't cut it against a Delarquan. It's kind of like punching a lady because she slapped you first...not very honorable but hey what do I know, I'm just an unintelligent Delarquan who'll slap men, women, and children at the drop of a coin!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As a manager that started the game Freeblades, and then restarted the game Freeblades after a long hiatus I feel I have a neutral opinion in the matter. First off, I CAN"T believe ya'll are still discussing this nonsense. Its over, let it go. Secondly, I can't believe I'm even responding to all the nonsense myself.
The invasion was a crock of <insert adjective>. Period, point blank, end of discussion. As illkidk so subtly said, NO ONE WON. Both sides made their respective points. And the biggest point that was made, that no one really intended to make, was it should have been left alone. Give me a break. So arena 11 is happy in there own little world, well let them have that lil world. Basically leave them alone. The invaders wanted to puff out their chests to make a point that "NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO", yet the ironic thing is that over 90% of the "invaders" didn't even run in DM11 on a regular or semi-regular basis in the first place. Once again, leave them alone(side note: I do not agree neccesarily with dm11's credo but damnit, it aint hurting no-one so I kinda respect it and they should have there fun, what this damn game is supposed to be about anyways).
Make no mistake, I am not supporting the Andorian way of view.... ya'll were equally wrong for sticking your noses in the air screaming na-na-na-na-boo-boo. And the Delarqs were equally wrong(especially the majority that didn't even give a flip about dm11 in the first place) for invading. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
It's emabarrising and pathetic from both ends and everyone as a collective whole ought to be ashamed of themselves for even having the stupid thing that pretty much fizzled in the first place. And its even more pathetic and embarrising that its STILL being discussed to this day. I mean in all honesty this whole invader vs defender crap was all talk and no action, everyones bark was bigger than the bite, and that explains why it started with a bang and very, very, very, very, very quickly after that ended with a whimper. Its the war that never was. Leave it at that.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JEKYLL1 wrote:
Its the war that never was. Leave it at that.


Hmmmm, a war that never was. We must admit that you are so right.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
he next person that declares their side won better post some numbers because it's obvious that no one was mentally broken for a prolonged period.


When Doc Steele chastises his own "side" as not being able to follow through, I think that's a pretty good indication that the invasion was hardly a prolonged length of time...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
Quote:
he next person that declares their side won better post some numbers because it's obvious that no one was mentally broken for a prolonged period.


When Doc Steele chastises his own "side" as not being able to follow through, I think that's a pretty good indication that the invasion was hardly a prolonged length of time...


Bah, you're using word play! We all know Doc Steele is one of the most competetive managers in this game. One man's opinionated statement taken out of context is not conclusive evidence. C'mon, Manager, you know this, man! Besides, it seems your statement is in agreement with mine except for your follow through shot that was not accompanied by the empirical data I requested.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JEKYLL1 wrote:
As a manager that started the game Freeblades, and then restarted the game Freeblades after a long hiatus I feel I have a neutral opinion in the matter. First off, I CAN"T believe ya'll are still discussing this nonsense. Its over, let it go. Secondly, I can't believe I'm even responding to all the nonsense myself.
The invasion was a crock of <insert adjective>. Period, point blank, end of discussion. As illkidk so subtly said, NO ONE WON. Both sides made their respective points. And the biggest point that was made, that no one really intended to make, was it should have been left alone. Give me a break. So arena 11 is happy in there own little world, well let them have that lil world. Basically leave them alone. The invaders wanted to puff out their chests to make a point that "NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO", yet the ironic thing is that over 90% of the "invaders" didn't even run in DM11 on a regular or semi-regular basis in the first place. Once again, leave them alone(side note: I do not agree neccesarily with dm11's credo but damnit, it aint hurting no-one so I kinda respect it and they should have there fun, what this damn game is supposed to be about anyways).
Make no mistake, I am not supporting the Andorian way of view.... ya'll were equally wrong for sticking your noses in the air screaming na-na-na-na-boo-boo. And the Delarqs were equally wrong(especially the majority that didn't even give a flip about dm11 in the first place) for invading. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
It's emabarrising and pathetic from both ends and everyone as a collective whole ought to be ashamed of themselves for even having the stupid thing that pretty much fizzled in the first place. And its even more pathetic and embarrising that its STILL being discussed to this day. I mean in all honesty this whole invader vs defender crap was all talk and no action, everyones bark was bigger than the bite, and that explains why it started with a bang and very, very, very, very, very quickly after that ended with a whimper. Its the war that never was. Leave it at that.


I think what the 'war' boiled down to was one side not wanting to be told how to play. I don't think any of us want that. As long as it's permitted by RSI then it's fair to do in my book or it wouldn't be there.

While a Delarq myself and have no problems if i see a challenge i like (even if it's down) I believe 'Larqs only will make u a constant target if you've done something to gain that attention. Squeeky wheel gets the oil, no?

Of course there are times when the only good challenge for me is the same guy over and over. If I have an aimbee for instance and everyone else around me are fast lungers and slashers and ONE TP...hmmm, I wonder who I'm going to challenge every turn? What good manager wouldn't?

But at the same time I say this I do understand some of the Andorian points of view. I have seen some nasty DC's in my day and being on the bad end of 12 FE difference fight can suck tremendously. But don't complain about a 1 pt recognition difference DC (which I've heard being done).

What's best is probably something in the middle of the two extreme views. DC'ing isn't an unforgivable sin. If RSI permits it within the rules of the game then it's a fair move. If somebody does something you don't like to you....get even, don't get mad. You can argue til you're blue in the face and you're not going to change someone's mind who doesn't want it changed.

So if you get DC'd, return fire. Don't complain about minor DC's that are really of no significance and enjoy the game. And 'larqs, unless there is a good reason to keep DC'ing the same guy over and over....don't. Try to spread em around. Usually there's more then enough targets to spread the beating around too. It's like something consortium and I were talking about in another thread...if you completely destroy some new guy 'just because' you might just be running of a newbie that the survival of this game really relies on. But if you see an old enemy or a manager you know you'd like to compete against...go ahead. Just go ahead and expect the appropriate return fire. Don't complain when it happens back just as they shouldn't complain the first time when you do it to them. My personal philosophy is 2 for 1 on challenges. I know, that just opens up to a never ending war but isn't that part of what this game is supposed to be? Rivals on the sand versus guys you really enjoy kicking the hell out of? And just because we war on the sands doesn't mean we can't have a beer at the face. Just respect each other as people and play the game without being childish peeps. Rivalries can quickly lose their entertainment value when you take this too seriously....it's a game.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Besides, it seems your statement is in agreement with mine except for your follow through shot that was not accompanied by the empirical data I requested.


Turn: 467-470: The Invasion of Aruak City begins. The arena balloons in size from 38 teams to 69. (33 Unchartered Teams Turn 470)

Turn 480: The Invasion is nearly Dead. The arena quickly shrinks back down to 45 teams, 3 of which belong to Doc Steele and 2 to LHI, who just joined the turn. (11 Unchartered Teams on Turn 480)

Turn 484: Everything looks back to normal.

Most of the new teams that popped in couldn't even play for 10-12 turns? That's shorter than most of the contests that are running around in basic.
In my opinion, it certainly isn't long enough to prove any sort of point.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
Quote:
Besides, it seems your statement is in agreement with mine except for your follow through shot that was not accompanied by the empirical data I requested.


Turn: 467-470: The Invasion of Aruak City begins. The arena balloons in size from 38 teams to 69. (33 Unchartered Teams Turn 470)

Turn 480: The Invasion is nearly Dead. The arena quickly shrinks back down to 45 teams, 3 of which belong to Doc Steele and 2 to LHI, who just joined the turn. (11 Unchartered Teams on Turn 480)

Turn 484: Everything looks back to normal.

Most of the new teams that popped in couldn't even play for 10-12 turns? That's shorter than most of the contests that are running around in basic.
In my opinion, it certainly isn't long enough to prove any sort of point.


Perhaps the Larqs all being unchartered was a factor. Maybe they learned the hard way how much it can suck being out-FE'd all the time?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
Quote:
Besides, it seems your statement is in agreement with mine except for your follow through shot that was not accompanied by the empirical data I requested.


Turn: 467-470: The Invasion of Aruak City begins. The arena balloons in size from 38 teams to 69. (33 Unchartered Teams Turn 470)

Turn 480: The Invasion is nearly Dead. The arena quickly shrinks back down to 45 teams, 3 of which belong to Doc Steele and 2 to LHI, who just joined the turn. (11 Unchartered Teams on Turn 480)

Turn 484: Everything looks back to normal.

Most of the new teams that popped in couldn't even play for 10-12 turns? That's shorter than most of the contests that are running around in basic.
In my opinion, it certainly isn't long enough to prove any sort of point.


Ah, thank you, kind sir! Now that's insightful. However, the trending here only suggests what we already knew and that is the fact that there was an invasion. I think we all agree it was an invasion and not an occupation or some sort of tactical, goal oriented, organized battle. Without being the latter then there can, obviously, be no winner. Although, if you wanted to go by pure w-l-k and someone knew the whos who, I would be willing to assist in mining the data so we could put some proof in the protestation. Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

if you done a W/l you would probably find that the invaders fought eachother more than we did the defenders. All those new teams blowing in there at the same time and all made for a hard time getting challenges thru. And if most of the other invaders were like me they quickly discovered that the invasion turned out to be incredibly boring and left soon after. If it would have stayed the way the Sloshers had intended (just them as the invaders), it would have been a fun little tussle for all involved.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JEKYLL1 wrote:
So arena 11 is happy in there own little world, well let them have that lil world. Basically leave them alone.


Someone talking about San Francisco?

Polarius

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Polarius wrote:
JEKYLL1 wrote:
So arena 11 is happy in there own little world, well let them have that lil world. Basically leave them alone.


Someone talking about San Francisco?

Polarius


I thought he was talking about Washington, D.C.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ultraist wrote:
if you done a W/l you would probably find that the invaders fought eachother more than we did the defenders. All those new teams blowing in there at the same time and all made for a hard time getting challenges thru. And if most of the other invaders were like me they quickly discovered that the invasion turned out to be incredibly boring and left soon after. If it would have stayed the way the Sloshers had intended (just them as the invaders), it would have been a fun little tussle for all involved.


As Shakespeare might say, it was
"Much Ado About Nothing"
It just wasn't a successful event, so we are done with this line ............

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