Hrmmmm

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:25 am

Doing a bit of planning ahead for the arrival of my warriors. Is lunge and Aimed still top dogs?

Unchartered Poster Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 3

The gateway tourney is actually ruled by Furious Impaler. A LU that got turned into an AB by the style switch TC prize. He is pretty unstoppable. He has lost maybe 5 or 6 fights in the last couple of years. Including all tourney and regular arena play.

Different tourney levels have their styles that do well.. but as a genrerality you can say that LUs are the ´best´ style.

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:31 am

Someone has clearly been not reading the Gateway newsletters lately.....

Site Admin Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 1344

You know he has to be screwing with his strategy. Lazer wolf isn´t that good... or maybe LW grew a little and picked up a damamge class. I think there will be quite a bit of reshuffeling in Gateway as the higher damage warriors shift upwards now.

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:11 pm

One of Lazar´s wins was at the Mail-In tourney so at least one of those wins was "real".

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:05 am

There has actually been a lot of strategy tweaks going on since Furious first started going open handed (January 2001). Lazar Wolf beats Furious because he meets the very narrow criteria of abilities needed, and he is using the "perfect" strategy against Furious. Tarad also beat Furious in a tourney (I think January FTF 2002), so the wins are mainly due to strategy adjustments, not warrior modifications. I think there are only three or four warriors that can beat Furious, but that might be enough to keep him from TCing because those few are all TC contenders in their own right.
-- Neon

Site Admin Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 1344

Furious rolled over his FE/Rec points. He is no longer a huge Gateway threat.

-- Jiles

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:29 am

Getting off Furious now.

What else are the general opinions? I know Neonone prefers offensive warriors with some tweeners. No one has a plan that allows defensive warriors to progress faster than offensive?

Come to think of it, anyone got a defender that dodges better than a lunger? He ought to make all these lungers I see look mismade.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

No defensive dodges better than a lunger. Lungers have the highest starting attack and defense ratings built in. If you don´t believe me, go to this site, select DM Info, and look at the skill charts there - they include the style modifiers to starting skills, and lungers have the smallest penalty to both of those skills.

[ This message was edited by: Kage on 29-07-2002 13:14 ]

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:20 am

Fascinating. Of course, you could make a defensive that dodged better than nearly any lunger does to start or short term even due to the lungers need to build up endurance stats.

Now I´m engrossed by the picture. Next midget I get I´m making into a parry/kangeroo. LOL, I´m cracking myself up just thinking about it.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Any mediocre lunger can start with 12 defense skills, and a good one can easily start with Expert Defense. I´ve yet to see a defensive do that. An AB once, but no defensive.

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:31 pm

Well, my totally mediocre lunger will start with 5. Of course I hadn´t seen the charts to plan him out with. I can easily see a TP for instance with 11 Def, 10 parry and 14 riposte to start despite the high penalty for style. And I don´t have to out dodge the lungers I only have to dodge enough that they get tired before I fall and the riposte can kick in.

Your right if you mean this wont let me compete against maxed out lungers in gateway. But like so many said at the start of the thread I have no ideas of ever playing anyone that high at this point anyway.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Nah, I´m just talking about trying to make someone with higher defense than a lunger will have, and I´m saying it´s not going to happen. Lungers are tied with a couple other styles at a -12 Defense skill modifier. No style has a smaller penalty to starting defense skills.

This means that, while you can conceivably make a couple warriors with identical defense, you´ll never make one with higher defense than a lunger can achieve. My bloodgames DYO lunger started with 18 defense skills, and he wasn´t even set up to maximize defense. Most of mine start in the 8-12 area, despite low speed, and a few have started higher.

The defensives you´re talking about are likely to have lower defense simply because they´re more likely to have more points in con, thereby taking away from Wit, Will, Speed, and Deftness. Sure, it´s possible to create a 3-3-3-21-21-12-21 TP to go for those same 18 starting defense skills, but you´d never get anywhere with it.

As to your lunger, I´d like to see the stats. Five starting defense skills is VERY low, indicating either skill-hosed (which you wouldn´t know until he got his expert) or a problem with the design. Even my 11-5-19-17-15-7-11 design projects more, and size 19 defense sucks.

Finally, yes, most TP´s will thrash lungers early in their careers. However, once you both pass 20 FE, the lungers will start handing the TP´s their heads. The lungers will generally be fighting on favorites with their favorite, and they´ll finally be learning attack. Some will even favor it, meaning they´ll tear through the TP defenses. Slashers will be giving them nightmares, and any style still has a chance of beating them, but TP´s won´t be a guaranteed loss any longer.

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:37 am

Quote:

On 2002-07-31 08:39, Kage wrote:

Finally, yes, most TP´s will thrash lungers early in their careers. However, once you both pass 20 FE, the lungers will start handing the TP´s their heads.

Not true. Lungers still have a problem with s***** well past the 20-fe mark. The only way a lunger can beat a s***** easily is if the lunger knows he´s going to match up against a s*****, and even then it´s nowhere near a guarantee. Lungers burn too much endurance, and most of them don´t throw slash crits in basic. LU/TP remains a good matchup for the TP throughout basic and low ADM. In the upper reaches of ADM and beyond, development matters more than style.

Once again, Lungers are very good, but not as dominant as you make them out to be. They can be beaten just as easily as anything else.

Andarus

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Quote:

On 2002-07-31 11:37, Andarus wrote:

Not true. Lungers still have a problem with s***** well past the 20-fe mark. The only way a lunger can beat a s***** easily is if the lunger knows he´s going to match up against a s*****, and even then it´s nowhere near a guarantee.

Interesting observation. I´ve never had a problem with strikers after about 20FE, nor have any of my friends. Maybe you should try something other than 10-10-10 sometime.

Quote:

Lungers burn too much endurance, and most of them don´t throw slash crits in basic. LU/TP remains a good matchup for the TP throughout basic and low ADM. In the upper reaches of ADM and beyond, development matters more than style.

Again, that has never been my observation. Getting the favorite weapon is simple, since lungers are only well-suited to 5 weapons, and getting the favorite OE isn´t much harder. Skilled TP´s who are also seemingly unaffected by pain could be a problem, but you don´t really see many of those floating around.

I´m not saying that lungers are unbeatable, which is what you seem to think I´m implying, but after about 20 FE, they really start coming into their own. Then again, that could be because I don´t run lungers with less than 17/17 wit/will. If your lungers are consistantly losing to strikers and TP´s in the champions, then perhaps you should re-evaluate how you´re running them. Now there´s nothing you can do about slashers beating them, but after 20 FE lungers´ higher skill bases really start coming into play.