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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:50 am

I've been experimenting with OTP's just for fun. I'm not doing to well with them.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to design and run an effective OTP?

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:32 pm

Basically you can't design an OTP. They're either born offensive or they're not. If they learn a lot of init, decise, or especially attack, they'll be offensive. I wouldn't run them with a high OE. Just run medium numbers and no tactics.

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:07 pm

Run it like a WS. An OTP has gotta' have a BARE MINIMUM WT of 11 or 13, I prefer 15 as the best number leaving stats for other key areas. If you run a PAR strat run him a bit hotter in the OE area (5+). You never know how they'll run with tactics so dribble in a riposte or responsiveness tactic here and there and see if in those minutes he throws crit attacks or parries. I'll send mine out as hot as HI/MO but never more, unless I'm using the rumored EMBEZZLING SCRIBE strat of 10-10-10- response.

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:39 pm

Well I agree with the 11, 13, 15 Wit absolutely. You do not need a 17 or 21 since the longer fights seem to help with multi skill learning. Will 13 plus. DFT 11 plus. Str 9 plus.

Strategy well I'll talk KD. Your TP will get lucy goose with to high a KD early on. your strategy could be good but he will flail away like an idiot. Early on I stay 4 and under on KD.

Something was said about the knack and that anecdotal does seem to be true though a TP that you did not realize was an OTP will suddenly spark up further inot their carrier. It really relates to that adx att. I also agree about your OTP learning ATT. Very important. If you get decise or init learns feel blessed.

Sincerely Purple Sage

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:33 am

My best three TPs were offensive, with the first designed 7-14-10-21-17-4-11, learned attack and (somehow) did not lose to an AB until ADM. My second-best was 5-16-11-17-21-4-10, learned a bit above average, but had a riposte favorite learn. The third was 7-12-11-13-21-7-13, learned way better than he had any right to and favored decise. They received invites at 17-3-0, 17-2-0, and 17-3-1, respectively.

Basically, if you want to run an OTP, you either need to luck into a favorite learn that's NOT parry, defense, or initiative, set him up to learn quickly, or preferably both. However, no matter how offensive he's going to be, early on he has to rely on parrying his opponent down - TP's aren't generally going to have enough riposte and attack early on to be in your face from minute one. Do not rely on long fights to increase learns - as with any other warrior, 2 more points of wit has a much greater effect than fights averaging 2 minutes longer.

Early on, you'll still want to parry the first minute or two and then kick up the OE a notch. Your guy will almost certainly flail a lot to start - it's normal for TP's, especially in the first 5 fights. With an OTP, you're going to have respectable wit, so physicals won't be as good as on the rookie tanks, so don't expect him to be able to win going 1-1-1-P the whole fight.

Once any TP has started learning attack, you can get him to start swinging back more. Basically, key your challenges to what he's learning; if it's attack, sic him on other defensives. If he's learning decise, don't be afraid to open things up once attack hits 10 and see if you can't jump some slower offensives - my 17-3-1 TP got his kill by jumping and dismembering the basher duelmaster. With a riposte favorite, try moderate to high numbers, going after offensives who have no defense.

Also, keep in mind that KD is actually better thought of as "aggressiveness", and keeping it too low is just as bad as keeping it too high. Too high and he'll start swinging wildly and generally going berserk, but too low and he'll let a lot of opportunities for attack slip by. When you have your guy start swinging back, I'd strongly recommend moderate KD - your guy won't go nuts, but he also won't hesitate to attack.

Also, I don't as a rule recommend higher OE with parry tactics simply because it seems to seriously hurt your ability to riposte, and high OE with no riposte just means lower overall defenses with nothing else to compensate. That however, is another discussion.

Oh, and I don't know about 10-10-10-response, but I've thrashed a few strikers going 10-10-7-open. Wink

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:24 am

I'll share my one of my offensive TPs -- it's an unusual TP design: 9-17-9-17-9-10-13. I know what you're thinking, "A nine-will TP are you nuts?" Maybe I am but this thing TC'd apprentices a while back. He is +4 attack and +4 riposte, and seems to have an attack favorite learn. I have no reason to expect that another TP with the same numbers would be nearly as good -- I just got lucky on this one. Sometimes you have to go with your gut and try an oddball design.

Advanced Master Poster Joined: Jul 15, 2008 Posts: 382

Ichabod, great info.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:30 am

Well, my TP has only two fights and has only learned decise and attack skills.
In his second fight, the Striker he was fighting swung 6 times at him. Each time he parried and received the steal intiative statement.
He disengage's his foe's weapon arm and tries to steal the initiative.
He bats his foes weapon aside leaving him open to attack.
Steps back, then rushes forward in a counterattack.
Each time he did nothing with the riposte and gave the initiative back to his opponent.
I was running him 3-4-5 in that minute. I was thinking of running 6-4-5 in the first minute.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:51 am

I think 3-4-5 is a fine strategy for an OTP. I might go up to 4 OE, but I think 6 might be too high. I could be wrong -- try it and see what happens. As you said he only has two fights. If he keeps learning like he is, he'll attack plenty even at a 3 OE. OTPs will go berserk even with a low OE.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:07 pm

I've yet to noticably realize a problem with MO/LO parry tactic. In fact my guys tend to swing like nuts after a parry. My OTP in 47 has struggled because I messed around way too much with strats and didn't stick with what seems to be his fave numbers 4-4-5 riposte. He ran off a 4-3 with 6 FE in a tourney running 5-3-5-x-P then 4-4-5-x-R minute 2 and down to 4-3-6-x-P desperation.

As for the 10-10-10-x-S strat. It's a wild strat but I jumped a few Bashers and an aimer with one of my brick TPs in 14 and have adopted it for OCCASIONAL use.

As to the original post, if he's learning ATT and DEC then you indeed have yourself an OTP on your hands. 6-4-5 would be a fine strat for this guy for minute 2 or 3 but like Ichabod says for the first 5-7 fights I'd run it with a PAR strat minute 1. Myself if I knew I was facing a ST or BA I'd run a riposte tactic minute 2 hoping to rip a tiring offensive who may "fade back to rest" and leave you an opening! I know if he fades back you don't need to rip it I'm simply stating it seems tiring warriors seem easier to rip!

One thing that's tough to gauge is when to and not to run a PAR strat. If he learns very little PAR then later in your career you may have to continue using the tactic. Early on if he's close to having an Ex rating versus 10 FE and under warriors you won't need it. You need to estimate your opponents ATT levels versus your PAR. If your in the land of Ma ATT warriors and you have yet to hit AE in PAR you'll need the PAR.

The OTP can be the most difficult to run unless you get a BORN OTP as there's such a wide range of ways too run it.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:04 pm

I agree, you should run a semi-scummy strategy for the first few minutes, at least until he gets his "fightin' legs".

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:03 pm

Blackstorm recently (within the last two years) wrote a couple of OTP articles that were published in Niytiole Island Newsletter.

From what I recall Blackstorm stressed that a good OTP needs points in all areas - which means they typically don't have a 21. Points anywhere can work - even speed. The 9 will version mentioned doesn't surprise me.

Three thoughts:
1. I have run TPs that I thought would be fairly offensive and they just refused to swing. When I tried to make them they flailed. Turned out to be VL/VL and it was obvious from the fights. There are some you just can't make swing.
2. Try a few different numbers. I have used 3-6 OE with success. Try to get a feel for the warrior.
3. I don't like using parry a lot with them becaus it seems to make them less likely to swing back. But again, experiment and know your opponent.

Good luck - have come to really like OTPs.

Whoever runs the Imported Footballers, you just killed a really nice one in Bonsur.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:31 pm

Don't read too much into favorites with an OTP. My attack-learner has always done exceptionally well with a 4-5 OE, has often done well with up to 8 OE, and yet has favorites of VL/L (which I never, ever used). The problem with 1-2 OE is that they just won't attack. That one I actually ran 8-5-5 in minute 1 in Basic in order to counterbalance the slightly low riposte he had. Worked amazingly well.

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:20 am

Ichabod wrote:

Don't read too much into favorites with an OTP. My attack-learner has always done exceptionally well with a 4-5 OE, has often done well with up to 8 OE, and yet has favorites of VL/L (which I never, ever used). The problem with 1-2 OE is that they just won't attack. That one I actually ran 8-5-5 in minute 1 in Basic in order to counterbalance the slightly low riposte he had. Worked amazingly well.

This is pretty much what we see.