Double-Avoids

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:22 am

What's the consensus on this? Is there one?

Does a second avoid against a team reduce the chance of a challenge going through? What about a double-challenge? Or a challenge from two warriors on the same team?

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:11 am

Double-avoiding is absolutely pointless. When a challenge is pulled against the avoiding character, it checks to see if there's an avoid. If there is, a die is rolled to determine if the challenge goes through; if it does, then the challenge match is fought, otherwise the program moves on to the second challenge. If there are no further challenges, then the warrior is thrown back into the regular pool.

Double-challenging works becuase each challenge is checked in order, but avoids are a simple yes/no flag.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:44 am

AndruilTheAncient wrote:

What's the consensus on this? Is there one?

Does a second avoid against a team reduce the chance of a challenge going through? What about a double-challenge? Or a challenge from two warriors on the same team?

Can't add a thing. Ichabod has the scoop.

Other than in actual play, double-avoiding can affect the atatements in the spyreports, which have no significance unless you are playing in an "event "which takes this into play/scoring.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:09 am

Quote:

Other than in actual play, double-avoiding can affect the atatements in the spyreports, which have no significance unless you are playing in an "event "which takes this into play/scoring.

I don't believe this is true,or if it is, it is so far down the priority list that it probably isn't worth it. From what I understand, the majority of the time computer ignores the input of the 2nd avoid. (Sandy might not even bother to input it)

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:26 am

Managerr wrote:

Quote:

Other than in actual play, double-avoiding can affect the atatements in the spyreports, which have no significance unless you are playing in an "event "which takes this into play/scoring.

I don't believe this is true,or if it is, it is so far down the priority list that it probably isn't worth it. From what I understand, the majority of the time computer ignores the input of the 2nd avoid. (Sandy might not even bother to input it)

Well, then, I bow to the expert. You and your teams use this "facet" well.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:38 am

Ichabod wrote:

Double-avoiding is absolutely pointless. When a challenge is pulled against the avoiding character, it checks to see if there's an avoid. If there is, a die is rolled to determine if the challenge goes through; if it does, then the challenge match is fought, otherwise the program moves on to the second challenge. If there are no further challenges, then the warrior is thrown back into the regular pool.

Double-challenging works becuase each challenge is checked in order, but avoids are a simple yes/no flag.

That's what I've heard. But then, if the first challenge is avoided, what happens to the second challenge on the same warrior?

For the sake of discussion, let me clarify the challenge priority as I see it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all of these are processed from highest RP to lowest RP:

1. Dark Arena challenges
2. Bloodfeuds
3. TV Challenges
4. 1st Challenges
5. 2nd Challenges

Questions:

A. Does a single avoid work for every round?
B. Are double-challenges calculated all at once? Or if, for example, your first challenge is avoided, are you then open to challenges between "rounds"?

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:15 pm

As I said, if the first challenge is avoided, then the second challenge is checked. Completely independently. That's why double challenges actually work. Sometimes.

Avoids work all round no matter how many times you're challenged. I heard that didn't used to be the case, but it has been for at least 20 years now.

If a warrior is checked for challenges, both challenges of the same priority are check at the same time. The only way to go back to the pool between challenges is if they are differing priorities, such as a bloodfeud primary, regular challenge secondary.

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Ichabod wrote:

As I said, if the first challenge is avoided, then the second challenge is checked. Completely independently. That's why double challenges actually work. Sometimes.

Avoids work all round no matter how many times you're challenged. I heard that didn't used to be the case, but it has been for at least 20 years now.

If a warrior is checked for challenges, both challenges of the same priority are check at the same time. The only way to go back to the pool between challenges is if they are differing priorities, such as a bloodfeud primary, regular challenge secondary.

As I understand it from the past this is exactly how it works.

Sincerely Purple Sage

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:22 am

Ichabod wrote:

As I said, if the first challenge is avoided, then the second challenge is checked. Completely independently. That's why double challenges actually work. Sometimes.

Avoids work all round no matter how many times you're challenged. I heard that didn't used to be the case, but it has been for at least 20 years now.

If a warrior is checked for challenges, both challenges of the same priority are check at the same time. The only way to go back to the pool between challenges is if they are differing priorities, such as a bloodfeud primary, regular challenge secondary.

Would a double-avoid decrease the chance of a successful bloodfeud? I only ask because there was a thread not long ago in 81 where Trip got his bloodfeud avoided all 4 turns while Terminator double-avoided all 4 turns.

I know I've seen other threads around where experienced managers gave credence to the double-avoid strategy, but at the time, I thought nothing of it. Funny how that works.

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Jul 18, 2006 Posts: 1170

AndruilTheAncient wrote:

Ichabod wrote:

As I said, if the first challenge is avoided, then the second challenge is checked. Completely independently. That's why double challenges actually work. Sometimes.

Avoids work all round no matter how many times you're challenged. I heard that didn't used to be the case, but it has been for at least 20 years now.

If a warrior is checked for challenges, both challenges of the same priority are check at the same time. The only way to go back to the pool between challenges is if they are differing priorities, such as a bloodfeud primary, regular challenge secondary.

Would a double-avoid decrease the chance of a successful bloodfeud? I only ask because there was a thread not long ago in 81 where Trip got his bloodfeud avoided all 4 turns while Terminator double-avoided all 4 turns.

I know I've seen other threads around where experienced managers gave credence to the double-avoid strategy, but at the time, I thought nothing of it. Funny how that works.

Sorry, but this isn't entirely true. While I absolutely did avoid Tripwire, I did so only with single avoids and a whole lot of luck!

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:59 am

Once again, double avoiding does jack-all. When the challenge is checked against the avoid, if the die roll indicates the challenge succeeds, the fight is scheduled. The second avoid is not checked.

Avoiding is a yes/no flag - either you're avoiding or you're not. You don't "avoid twice as much".

It is quite possible to avoid four bloodfueds. The odds are dramatically small (0.16%), but it can be done. At one point last year I had a 15 will warrior miss a first stat raise five times in a row, which is a similar probability.

Basic rule of statistics: ridiculously unlikely != impossible.

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:27 pm

Just to add to what has already been noted with some official content...

When doing the Dueltorial, I asked RSI if double challenging increases your odds and they said yes and then I asked if double avoids increases your chance of avoiding someone they said no. Straight from the source.

ST

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:23 pm

Terminator wrote:

AndruilTheAncient wrote:

Ichabod wrote:

As I said, if the first challenge is avoided, then the second challenge is checked. Completely independently. That's why double challenges actually work. Sometimes.

Avoids work all round no matter how many times you're challenged. I heard that didn't used to be the case, but it has been for at least 20 years now.

If a warrior is checked for challenges, both challenges of the same priority are check at the same time. The only way to go back to the pool between challenges is if they are differing priorities, such as a bloodfeud primary, regular challenge secondary.

Would a double-avoid decrease the chance of a successful bloodfeud? I only ask because there was a thread not long ago in 81 where Trip got his bloodfeud avoided all 4 turns while Terminator double-avoided all 4 turns.

I know I've seen other threads around where experienced managers gave credence to the double-avoid strategy, but at the time, I thought nothing of it. Funny how that works.

Sorry, but this isn't entirely true. While I absolutely did avoid Tripwire, I did so only with single avoids and a whole lot of luck!

This is the thread where you said you were double-avoiding...just so you know I'm not misquoting you.

http://www.reality.com/duel2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2912&highlight=double+avoid&sid=1777f9eb33b8248148111228cddb5342

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Jul 18, 2006 Posts: 1170

I may have double avoided the first turn (I can't recall for certain), but I remember discussing it with several friends and they told me that the double avoids didn't have any effect. I discontinued after that. I am pretty sure I just did it the first turn.