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Duel2 :: View topic - School of Primus
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Bartender
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Posts: 416
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I've decided to give Primus a go and see what it's like. I've fought in Primus before but that was way back in the Gateway era so this time it will be different.

I have looked around in the forums trying to find any information on how to run in Primus but couldn't find any really. I guess what I'm looking for is information on how Primus is different from ADM play; the do's and don't's; etc.

I know it would be easier for you if I just posted any questions I have here, but that requires that I know what I don't know. I will throw out a few questions as a starting point, though.

First question is about stat training:

- I believe I've read that, in Primus, stats are learned at full rate the first five raises and then the rate is halved every raise but never drops below 25%. Is this correct?

What about skills:

- How many can you learn per fight (arena/tourney)?
- Do you learn at the same rate as in Basic/ADM?
- Do you learn Basic skills as fast as Primus skills?

Without turning this thread into a discussion about bare handed AB's and game changes, is Primus different from ADM when it comes to strategy. For example:

- Do you run warriors differently in Primus (bottom/middle/top)?

Another aspect of strategy is training:

- In what order do you max stats? I would guess WT/WL/DF first, then ST, then SP or CN.
- Would you go for stats first and Primus skills next or the other way around?

Well, that's a starting point.

If there are any forum threads that I have overlooked that discusses Primus and how to run there, please let me know and I will read them instead/also.

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On the Rocks (35,103), Jungleland (81), Gorgeous Goblins (102)
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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, as my record in Primus is horrible.

Your assumptions about training rate and learning rate are correct. I think the skill learning is somewhat increased, but I couldn't put a % on it. It seems easier to max out in Primus than in regular ADM. In general, I don't find that strategy differs too much in Primus, except that you must take into account your likely opponents, LUs and ABs.

Quote:
- In what order do you max stats? I would guess WT/WL/DF first, then ST, then SP or CN.


ST is way up on the list for me. The increase from Good damage to Awesome + is pretty huge, in my opinion. While it varies from warrior to warrior, it generally goes something like:

max Att and Def
max WL
max ST
max WT
max DF
max CN
max SP
max the rest of the skills

Generally I am looking to set up a warrior for a particular tourney class, so its obviously not as simple as above. I'm looking to balance quick development with my long term goals. For instance, if I were setting up an open handed AB, I might primarily be concerned with maxing Defense skills, I might stop training WL at 21 (since there are no Defense from 22-25), SP might go up the list considerably. If I were setting up a Total Parry or Wall of Steel, I might change my training regimen to maximize Parry skills and physicals.
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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'd like to start this post off with the same disclaimer as OAB did above, as my Primus record is even worse than his at the moment... /smirk

The first thing I do with my warriors fighting in Primus is determine if they're going to be fighting in tournies or not. If they are going to be a tourney warrior going forward, then your warrior development plan has to take into account DI. My guess is that if you're relatively new to Primus you only really have to worry about the Eligibles/Contenders line at approx 260/265 ish. If they're not going to be fighting in tournaments, then you're simply trying to improve your warrior's level of performance as quickly as possible, and how to do that depends on your individual warrior in their setup.

I can tell you from what I've seen that the ability to do massive damage, and likewise, the ability to take damage plays a more significant role in Primus. I agree whole-heartedly with OABs assertion that doing Tremendous/Awesome vs. merely Good damage has the ability to be a game changer for you. Everybody in Primus is walking around with Grandmasters up the wazzoo, and that is only in the lower ranks of Primus. You need to make your hits count, and hopefully they're in the same location to maximize their effectiveness. As a result of the massive damage capabilities of warriors at this level, I've also noticed that warriors tend to be more heavily armored (at least those that I've fought) than those in ADM.

Skill learns may come more quickly in Primus especially if you've burned a ton earlier in that warrior's career and they are well below their original 120 learns. You're going to lose in Primus early on, so if you're going the skill learn route then challenge a warrior (hopefully with a positive style matchup) with significantly more FE in the hopes of learning more skills. Do be careful not to challenge up too significantly, as if you beat them, you will assume a higher ranking in the standings (leapfrogging the warrior you beat), making it increasingly difficult to find favorable future matchups. I made this mistake with my first Primus warrior who entered at 24-1 and is now sitting at 35-33. A very slow and steady rise in the rankings is a much wiser approach.... your godling in ADM is now a pissant in Primus.

The advantage to training stats as opposed to skills learns is that you can specifically tailor which skills your warrior will learn as opposed to the random nature of skill learns. This is most signficant for those who are DI conscious. If you're training stats, make sure your will is at least 20 so you can take advantage of those nearly 100% stat trains each turn. Your stat train % assumptions are correct, with the first five being at max % and then halved each train thereafter with a floor of 25%.

I think going into Primus you have to accept the fact that losses will come much more frequently than you are used to anywhere else in Alastari. Realize that your first warrior or two will teach you more for future warriors coming up in the rankings.... that way you don't let the frustration of losses get to you. It's a slightly different mindset and I'm still getting used to it to be honest and I"m quickly closing in on 100 Primus fights.

I'm sure more experienced Primus managers will chime in, but I hope this will be of some assistance in planning the growth of your warriors in 102!!

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-Marma Duke-

Deviation, State of Mind, Da Dog Powndaz, Pyromania, Rap Attacks, Slamma Jamma

May your blades always be sharp, and your opponents armor always have rust.....
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
- I believe I've read that, in Primus, stats are learned at full rate the first five raises and then the rate is halved every raise but never drops below 25%. Is this correct?


Yes

Quote:
What about skills:

- How many can you learn per fight (arena/tourney)?


12/6

Quote:
- Do you learn at the same rate as in Basic/ADM?
- Do you learn Basic skills as fast as Primus skills?


Skill Learning is doubled in Primus. (Might even be more at first since your WT is likely higher than it was in basic)

Quote:

Without turning this thread into a discussion about bare handed AB's and game changes, is Primus different from ADM when it comes to strategy. For example:

- Do you run warriors differently in Primus (bottom/middle/top)?


The biggest difference I see Primus newbies making is that your warriors are big boys now, you should be able to run his best strategy in all minutes. Things you used to be able to get away with in basic and ADM (like slowing down against some defensives) isn't going to cut it.

Quote:

Another aspect of strategy is training:

- In what order do you max stats? I would guess WT/WL/DF first, then ST, then SP or CN.


As in ADM, it depends on your goals. Tourney timing? Maxxing out the fastest? Just being competitive at your skill ranking?

Quote:

- Would you go for stats first and Primus skills next or the other way around?


Most people go for skills first because it's cheaper when being counted as part of the ADM skill formula. (1 skill = 1 point), but if you had a bad favorite learn, that might not be always be a good idea.
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TMM
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Joined: Jul 17, 2002
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:

- I believe I've read that, in Primus, stats are learned at full rate the first five raises and then the rate is halved every raise but never drops below 25%. Is this correct?


Yes

25% feels a bit high. I'm thinking more like 15%, but maybe my guys have been really unlucky for a while.

Quote:
What about skills:

- How many can you learn per fight (arena/tourney)?

12/6


Wow, 12? I think I've seen 9 but never 12. That's an amazing learn!
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
25% feels a bit high. I'm thinking more like 15%, but maybe my guys have been really unlucky for a while.


The number I've actually heard (From someone who claims to have heard from RSI) was 22.5. But who knows for sure?

Quote:

Wow, 12? I think I've seen 9 but never 12. That's an amazing learn!


I've gotten 12 twice....it's been awhile though.
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Aragorn
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Posts: 503

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 6:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

With 36 total teams, Primus appears to be one of the healthiest arenas in the game. I'm hoping to return there again soon.
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Aragorn wrote:
With 36 total teams, Primus appears to be one of the healthiest arenas in the game. I'm hoping to return there again soon.


37 Challenges too! And Guardian actually wrote a personal ad! (I almost fainted when I actually saw he wrote one)
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Aragorn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The Philanthropologist is returning to his long lost Primus career and he brought some tag-alongs with him. Look out! Watch out! He's down right awful BUT Beware...Not this coming turn, but the next...
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Up to 285 with your guys! Can we get up to 300?

It may be time to bring up the decades old argument that the Primus Guardian class is too big. Should be a cut off at around #210 to prevent the lower Primus Guardians from matching up with the Tower Guard. (Generally a ridiculous mismatch in skills)
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Aragorn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
Up to 285 with your guys! Can we get up to 300?

It may be time to bring up the decades old argument that the Primus Guardian class is too big. Should be a cut off at around #210 to prevent the lower Primus Guardians from matching up with the Tower Guard. (Generally a ridiculous mismatch in skills)


I have Mimosa coming too, probably after the split, he ended up fighting in 103...so that will be 286.
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