Finaly!!!

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:15 pm

I hear that Donald Trump is demanding to see the long-form death certificate.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:36 pm

Our favorite statement about this came from ESPN (Not Fox) and it was .....

Bush earned the win.
Obama got the save.

No matter what any of our politics are (and , of course, ours resembles our avatar) it WAS a great WIN.

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:36 pm

_Buri_ wrote:

I hear that Donald Trump is demanding to see the long-form death certificate.

Cracked us up! Laughing

Good one, Buri.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:50 pm

I canceled my cable and dish network subscriptions almost a year ago -- other than cable internet, I don't have television. However, the internet has been awash with stuff about this man's death; it has permeated even my hidden corner of the world.

I'm a little suspicious. Skeptical re: the details (and I've only skimmed them) and the timing.

a) There are many people walking around who had a part in 9/11. One of the principal figures is dead, and this is a good thing. What about the others?

b) Navy Seals, Army Green Berets/Special Forces, Marine Force Recon... these are seriously intense guys who don't take no for an answer. If they were after Bin Laden, they would have caught/killed him a long time ago, no matter where in the world he might have hidden himself. I've met a few of these types when I was in the Navy -- trust me on this one. These are the sort of guys who think jumping out of aircraft over the ocean at night in full gear, or popping out of a submarine torpedo tube and swimming a few miles so they can infiltrate an enemy beach or something for training is a "fun" thing to do... and if a few bad guys die along the way, "oh well". Seriously crazy and intense, and a good thing they're on our side... but to believe that they hadn't found and killed this guy until just now tells me that they probably weren't looking until fairly recently. Why? HHhhhmmmm. Pointless to speculate, but something to consider.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:12 am

KidArcane, as far as not finding Bin Laden goes, it is looking more and more like Pakistan has been harboring him for several years. I know it was surmised as early as 2002 that he had already left Afghanistan. If our guys weren't allowed to look for him in the right country, that really limits their ability to actually find him.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:45 am

Kid,
Let me qualify on this by saying, I was active in the United States Army for about 6 1/2 years. 3 1/2 of those years I spent in a Military Intelligence Unit and the other 3 were spent at Fort Bragg, NC home of Delta Force, Special Forces(Green Berets) and 82nd Airborne. My ex-wife is a Counter Intelligence Agent as were some of my good friends. I had other friends who were Intel Analysts. So I can tell you I know a little about the intelligence world and special operations.

It's very frustrating to have your wife or one of your good friends tell you I can't talk about something because your clearance level isn't high enough. So my point on this is, there's alot of information that we may never know and that's a good thing.

KidArcane wrote:

I'm a little suspicious. Skeptical re: the details (and I've only skimmed them) and the timing.

a) There are many people walking around who had a part in 9/11. One of the principal figures is dead, and this is a good thing. What about the others?

We've caught many and we're still looking. The Washington Post reports that some of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay that were interrogated gave info that over time led us to Bin Laden. Yes, Waterboarding works.

KidArcane wrote:

b) Navy Seals, Army Green Berets/Special Forces, Marine Force Recon... these are seriously intense guys who don't take no for an answer.

Actually these guys follows orders. It's all about the mission and objective.

KidArcane wrote:

If they were after Bin Laden, they would have caught/killed him a long time ago, no matter where in the world he might have hidden himself.

Bin Laden was a leader of a major terrorist organization. He was a multi-millionaire with a lot of connections. Bin Laden was believed to be in one of two sovereign nations; Afghanistan population 29 Million and Pakistan population 170 million. Just that alone, looking for someone in populations of about 200 million people would be hard. Not to mention, those were the two countries were he was thought to have been, but he could've been anywhere in the world. Special Ops just doesn't go into sovereign nations and look for someone without creditable Intel, planning and more planning. This is where your counter-intelligence comes into play. After that, your intelligence analyst go over the info. After the information is process, analyzed, over analyzed and put into briefings/assessments so forth. Eventually it would be turned over to higher ups and decisions would be made on what to do with that info. So these things take time. I know it’s hard to believe that it took over 10 years and two presidential administrations to find him but it did. And actually the Clinton administration was involved in Bin Laden as well, so make that 3 administrations. People say if they knew where Bin Laden was back in August why didn't we go get him? They had to plan this mission. There's a reason why no Americans were killed on this mission. There's a reason why Bin Laden was killed and didn't get away. You don't think he had a way to escape(tunnels, or even blowing the place) if he knew we were coming?

KidArcane wrote:

I've met a few of these types when I was in the Navy -- trust me on this one. These are the sort of guys who think jumping out of aircraft over the ocean at night in full gear, or popping out of a submarine torpedo tube and swimming a few miles so they can infiltrate an enemy beach or something for training is a "fun" thing to do... and if a few bad guys die along the way, "oh well".

Yes they train very hard and are very skilled in what they do. They plan for missions even harder and don't let personal feelings get in the way of their missions. Rambo was a Hollywood Movie.

KidArcane wrote:

Seriously crazy and intense, and a good thing they're on our side... but to believe that they hadn't found and killed this guy until just now tells me that they probably weren't looking until fairly recently. Why? HHhhhmmmm. Pointless to speculate, but something to consider.

It is great they are on our side.

I don’t think President Obama had Bin Laden killed months ago and waited for the right time politically. Enough of the conspiracy theories. This is a great thing for America. Democrats and Republican should be proud. I’m a registered Republican and I say great job Mr. President. Presidents Clinton and Bush good jobs as well. And great job to all the men and women who serve this great nation.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:40 am

Elephant, if there was a "like" button on this board, I would press it in response to your post.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:54 am

FWIW, I think he's been dead for 9 years, but in the spirit of celebration...

He could run, but he couldn't hide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYHWZyRSMU

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:11 pm

Elephant wrote:

Kid,
Let me qualify on this by saying, I was active in the United States Army for about 6 1/2 years. 3 1/2 of those years I spent in a Military Intelligence Unit and the other 3 were spent at Fort Bragg, NC home of Delta Force, Special Forces(Green Berets) and 82nd Airborne. My ex-wife is a Counter Intelligence Agent as were some of my good friends. I had other friends who were Intel Analysts. So I can tell you I know a little about the intelligence world and special operations.... Special Ops just doesn't go into sovereign nations and look for someone without creditable Intel, planning and more planning... I know it’s hard to believe that it took over 10 years and two presidential administrations to find him but it did.....
I don’t think President Obama had Bin Laden killed months ago and waited for the right time politically.

a) I certainly believe you know more about how the spec-ops world works than I do.
b) I was in the Navy for six years, the reserves for five, and got a round-trip ticket to the Persian Gulf thrown in for free. I have a fair idea of how the military works, too.
c) I don't believe in the conspiracy stuff either, at least not as far as this goes. I generally only skim the news because I feel it's slanted and incomplete. As much as I've read re: conspiracy I've discounted because it doesn't add up in many ways.
d) What I AM saying is that, methodology of our intelligence and counter-intelligence communities non-withstanding, there are levels of awareness re: information in general. For instance, I had a mere 'Secret' clearance while in the Navy. You doubtless held a clearance that dwarfed mine. However, I still don't go along with the idea that it was that very difficult to find a multi-millionaire with his sort of friends/connections, given what little I know about our intel networks and technology. People have habits they won't put aside, and nobody throws away money if they can help it. It sounds good to say he was hiding in a HUGE city, etc, but hiding out is best left to the poor and middle class. The more money you have, the easier it is to find you. You know this.
e) You're absolutely right about spec-ops people, at least as far as the ones I've met. The epitome of professionalism. Not much like the movies, but highly competent and dangerous (and a little crazy). They follow orders; they rarely get to make strategical decisions. I wasn't suggesting they do. I was saying that I don't think they'd been given the green light until fairly recently, and I just think that's odd, because I strongly suspect that America, at its highest levels, knew where he was. I'm sure there were reasons, good reasons no doubt, for not killing him earlier. Politicians make these decisions, not the military, and politicians have a surreal view of the world. I'm not pointing to our president, or to any one political party. They all stink the same to me.

Of course, you would disagree. You DID disagree. My problem is, I've seen too many instances (in the Navy and in the world at large) where the official party line is far, far from the reality. I'm a little too old, and much too jaded, to believe much of what my government tells me anymore. I prefer mild (healthy) skepticism, tempered by my limited experiences and on-going education, as opposed to blind allegiance. But that's just me.

Yes, I'm glad Bin Laden is dead. Long overdue. But I know there's more to this than meets the eye, and I personally prefer to know all the ugly little details whenever possible. And I'm certain that will never happen. sigh

I did like your post / reply, though. Give me points for that!