Duel2.Com  
•   Home  •  Rules  •  Your Account  •  Forums  • Newsletters  •
Navigate
· Home
· Content
· Encyclopedia
· Forums
· Members List
· Newsletters
· Old Newsletters
· Private Messages
· Setup
· Tourneys
· Your Account
User Info
Welcome, Anonymous
Nickname
Password
(Register)
Membership:
Latest: sarakhan
New Today: 1
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 19803

People Online:
Visitors:
Members:
Total: 0
Duel2.Com: Forums

Duel2 :: View topic - Got my old teams
 Forum FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Register  •  Profile  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in

 
Post new topicReply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
tas2826
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Sep 20, 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Shawnee, KS

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Got the info on my old teams. Open for opinions. There are a couple I am attached to and will run regardless, but interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Team 1
This is my old Seam(20) team that needs a home. The ST with 19 fights I will probably keep regardless, he is a natural born killer and was always fun to run, probably no long term potential though.

11-7-11-17-9(1)-9-21 ST 1-0-0
7-13-11-15-17-7-15(1) SL 0-1-0
9-9-11-19(1)-13-9-15 AB 0-3-0
10-11-16-15-9-8-15 PS 4-3-0
16-9-14-15(2)-13-6-14(1) ST 9-10-4

Team 2 - Riztab DM(12)
15-11-13-11-14-10(1)-11 BA 3-2-1
12-14-13-11-16-8-10 SL 0-0-0
12-9-8-7-21-12-15 WS 0-0-0
10-14-11-13-14-10-12 SL 0-1-0
16-14-10-11-11-11-12(1) PL 1-2-1

Team 3 - Arvat DM(32)
12-17-12-9(1)-10-14-11 SL 4-0-0
12-11-9-15-11-14-12 LU 0-2-0
11-13-10-15-15-9-11 WS 1-1-0
10(1)-13-10-10-13-14-15 ST 2-1-1
15-9-10-12-10-12-16 WS 1-2-0

From what I have read, most all of the above should probably be DA'ed. Wish I would have had all the knowledge at hand then that is there now. Oh well.
View user's profileSend private message
The Consortium
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8822
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

tas2826 wrote:
Got the info on my old teams. Open for opinions. There are a couple I am attached to and will run regardless, but interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Team 1
This is my old Seam(20) team that needs a home. The ST with 19 fights I will probably keep regardless, he is a natural born killer and was always fun to run, probably no long term potential though.

11-7-11-17-9(1)-9-21 ST 1-0-0
7-13-11-15-17-7-15(1) SL 0-1-0
9-9-11-19(1)-13-9-15 AB 0-3-0
10-11-16-15-9-8-15 PS 4-3-0
16-9-14-15(2)-13-6-14(1) ST 9-10-4

Team 2 - Riztab DM(12)
15-11-13-11-14-10(1)-11 BA 3-2-1
12-14-13-11-16-8-10 SL 0-0-0
12-9-8-7-21-12-15 WS 0-0-0
10-14-11-13-14-10-12 SL 0-1-0
16-14-10-11-11-11-12(1) PL 1-2-1

Team 3 - Arvat DM(32)
12-17-12-9(1)-10-14-11 SL 4-0-0
12-11-9-15-11-14-12 LU 0-2-0
11-13-10-15-15-9-11 WS 1-1-0
10(1)-13-10-10-13-14-15 ST 2-1-1
15-9-10-12-10-12-16 WS 1-2-0

From what I have read, most all of the above should probably be DA'ed. Wish I would have had all the knowledge at hand then that is there now. Oh well.


The advice given you, or as you interpreted, is way, way too slanted towards DAing. Managers DA because:
(1) they are searching for only good-to-godling warriors
(2) they feel unable to manage an "uncommon" or low WT or WL warrior to a decent record
(3) they are willing to accept losses to their team record as they DA (and often reDA) what they deem mediocre-at-best warriors
(4) They want to run only the best individual warriors and are less concerned about the overall team record
(5) They are willing only to run godling-like warriors in tournaments; they are not running a full arena team nor are they "team managing"
(6) Everyone wants that "best" warrior

That said, Team 1 looks the "best" to us overall.
We Consortiumites run many warriors similar to them.

Our advice is to DA cautiously rather than willy-nilly. We seldom, if ever, DA.

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1000 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 105K+ fights and 68K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1518*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1460; Lenpros DM30 @ 1424; Fandils @ 1336

Last edited by The Consortium on Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:06 am; edited 3 times in total
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Assurnasirbanipal
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1477
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I echo the Consortium's comments. Most of these warriors are runnable. While I use the DA a lot, I definitely do it consciously, though maybe not as cautiously as the Consortium.

The ones I would DA without thought from those three teams:

Team 1:
9-9-11-19(1)-13-9-15 AB 0-3-0 - Even this guy is quite runnable, but just as I rarely run sub 21 Will Lungers, I also rarely run sub 21 Deftness AB's. The wit makes him more attractive, but not enough to make me want to give him a chance

Team 3: (I doubt I'd run this team, as there is not a single warrior I want to build around - though the sponge slasher had a nice start!)
12-11-9-15-11-14-12 LU 0-2-0 - This guy is going to be challenged for a long time to come
15-9-10-12-10-12-16 WS 1-2-0 -"Yuck!"
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
tas2826
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Sep 20, 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Shawnee, KS

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thank you for the review of the teams. I agree, some I will DA and some I will keep and give them a chance. Hope I did not give the impression I was going to decimate the legion.

Given that I will for the most part stick to the arenas, I do think most can be run to have a lot of fun. Gonna do some more research and come up with some new strategies and see what happens.
View user's profileSend private message
_Buri_
Grandmaster Poster
Grandmaster Poster


Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 827
Location: Asgard

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I would not DA them, but neither would I run them. I would simply retire them and start new teams. Although Striker #1 is not bad at all (many would make that an AB, but I also have a ST who looks like that). You might consider getting some new sheets and toss them up here for design advice.

_________________
Buri, Crapmaster 2012
Aesir 003 & 100 & 102, The Club 010, The Blues 021, Omnitrix 030, Venture Bros 051
View user's profileSend private message
gentleben
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 3330
Location: Round Rock, Tx

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

_Buri_ wrote:
I would not DA them, but neither would I run them. I would simply retire them and start new teams. Although Striker #1 is not bad at all (many would make that an AB, but I also have a ST who looks like that). You might consider getting some new sheets and toss them up here for design advice.


I agree with Buri

_________________
Gentleben
Ben's Bazaar-21
Caress of Steel-28
Secret Squirrels-32
Pawn of Prophecy-47
Misfit Managers-1,2,3,4,18,25,29
View user's profileSend private message
Grimm
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 1007

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Let's be honest and straight about things.

Tas, the game has evolved into an extremely fine-tuned competition, whereby if you do not get all the information you will be at a notable competitve disadvantage. I strongly believe giving out this information is beneficial to the game as a whole, and misinforming you will increase the likelihood of you quitting due to frustration.

Consortium, while a skilled manager, is not being fair to you in suggesting that you do not look at replacing the warriors on these teams. Most are not very competitive, and you will struggle with them. 1-4's get tiring very quickly, and on these teams I see 2-3 as being the upper potential for a turn in most arenas.

Ok, let's get to the bottom of this. First, you do not need to run godlings to be competitive. What is a godling by modern definition (I know you may not understand what we mean by this)? A godling is a situationally dependent warrior who will excel at a specific time in his career. Hmmm what does that mean really. Well, that can be during his arena or tourny career he will be a force to reckon with. It is unlikely that any one warrior can do that for their entire career; therefore, being realistic about their abilities is important.

What abilities do you say? Well, there are a few. First is bonuses. Bonuses are additional skills warriors can attain in certain areas upon roll-up, this is basically 0-4 (I won't go into hosing, but they can go the other way too). A warrior who is highly bonused will begin with a skill base higher than is predicted on terrablood's character design, which sets them at an initial skill advantage versus their counterparts who are not bonused. Are bonuses important? Yes and no. Do they help? Yes, but warriors can overcome having little to no bonuses if they have some other attributes to compensate, such as...

Second, learning potential. Warriors who learn well will out skill their opponents; therefore, gaining a competitive advantage. This is a huge factor in success. Learning is a direct function of Wit; therefore, as high a wit as possible is preferrable. Learning is also based on style, FE difference in fights, and luck.

Third, are physicals such as damage, endurance, and ability to take damage. Many managers who use marginal roll-ups will use this area to help boost their records. Running defensive warriors who can take high levels of damage is a sure bet to improve one's record. This is not for everyone, many do not enjoy the challenge of watching opponents pass-out from exhaustion. This is player specific.

Fourth is style. This I will let you learn on your own. Certain styles perform very well for certain levels (TP scum rooks, Strikers pre-ADM), (or AB's all levels if they didn't die so much).

Fifth is luck. Luck is very important.

Ben and Buri are correct. You should strongly consider scapping those teams. Really, the one 21 DF striker is probably the most interesting of the bunch, and he is still meh. If you choose to run them that is fine too; just set your expectations a bit lower and be very patient.

Now again I do not think Consortium is being fair to you. You likely will have some trouble getting strategies bang on to start; therefore, warriors who are marginal at best are going to perform very poorly. You are not heavy on scum, and you do not have a competitive advantage of running 3-4 teams in a single arena to shape match-ups in your favor; therefore, it is probably good advice to start fresh, post the forums your new roll-ups and let the group help design them. This way information will be shared, and you will be able to circumvent the learnign curve a little bit.

Foremost, you need to decide what makes you feel happy.

_________________
Willy hears ya, Willy don't care.
View user's profileSend private message
Nomad
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 2073
Location: Fargo, ND

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think these responses illustrate exactly why it is important to get a lot of opinions and find your own niche.

The Consortium hardly ever DAs and is very successful. Then again, you (and I) may not have the skills to get the same results.

Grimm is very aggressive with the DA. (Or, to be more accurate, recommends that new/returning managers be very aggressive.) And yet, learning how to win with less than perfect setups is a big factor in getting better.

While I tend to lean towards limited DA use, they both have valid points. Losing, while a good way to learn, is not a really fun experience. And you can learn while winning as well. But just running godlings is hard to do and can be boring. Find the middle ground that works for you. This is probably the biggest problem with the teams above. With everything being fairly blah (or"meh," as Grimm would say) there isn't anything to get very excited about. I'd rather see an inexperienced manager run a team with a couple of good/great setups and some middle of the road. These are all middle of the road.

But run what you want to run. Learn how to find bonuses and see if you have any guys here with bonuses. If it were me I would absolutely run the first team, at least the striker with 19FE. Running the old guy you remember who had a knack is interesting. At least to me.

But some new teams may not be a bad idea. But don't forget the Consortium's comments. He knows what he is talking about.

Welcome back!

_________________
-Nomad
Sentinels(7)
Nomadic Tribe(21)
Dragonbane Guild(81)
View user's profileSend private message
Assurnasirbanipal
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1477
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

tas-
After Grimm's post, I feel I need to post again. Wit and Will (and Deftness for AB's) are considered very, very important. That doesn't mean you can't win without one (or both), but there is a thread somewhere else that showed how difficult it is to succeed with low wit and wills. Many managers have never had a warrior with less than about 25 wit+will graduate and as I recall only 1 or 2 had a graduate with less than 20 total (and those were just barely below 20).

I tell new managers to try not to run with less than 25 initially. You can win fights with lower (even much lower), but don't expect great records.

I'd send back the following question:
- Are you highly competitive? Most of these warriors can be made to win fights, but many of them are average type setups and even under great management, some of these warriors will struggle
- Are you patient? Are losses going to discourage you fast? If so, then pay $5 for new setups (or better yet ask if someone has one or more decent setups you can have. The Dark One will gladly give you a fairly good setup to run in DM 32 - At least he has in the past to anyone who asks, new or old. Similarly, there are lots of other managers who have decent setups that they'll never use because of their goals)
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Scruffy Puff
Advanced Master Poster
Advanced Master Poster


Joined: Jul 15, 2008
Posts: 382

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey Tas. Welcome back.

Ask 20 people a question and you'll get 20 different answers. My answer is this:

If your goal is to have fun and be competitive, team one looks just fine. It should do okay (winning record) in ANY basic arena. Also, you'll learn with them, and we all learn better from our failures than successes.

Good luck.
View user's profileSend private message
The Consortium
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8822
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tas, good luck with whatever your choice. The main thing is for you to enjoy the game.

All, we will let pass Grimm's inappropriate use of "Consortium is unfair". That, we are not.

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1000 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 105K+ fights and 68K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1518*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1460; Lenpros DM30 @ 1424; Fandils @ 1336
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
One Armed Bandit
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 2592

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I like your first team quite a bit. Every one of those warriors is capable of succeeding in the arena and the 19 fight, 4 kill warrior has a very unique record that is worth getting sentimental over. You should definitely transfer that team somewhere fun and run it.

The second and third teams are not nearly as good, and if I were you, I would consider starting one or two new teams instead of reactivating those ones.

Just my two cents, of course. Best of luck, whatever you decide.
View user's profileSend private message
tas2826
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Sep 20, 2011
Posts: 51
Location: Shawnee, KS

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I decided to get my feet wet again with team1. Since they were in Seam I had to move them, so I decided to go to Sunset, looks like a big, active arena, lots of folks to challenge. So, if the mail makes it there by the due date, you should see a new team on the radar.

The other 2 teams, I am still evaluating. There are a couple warriors I think I want to try. They will definitely be just arena guys but I think they will be fun to try and win with.

For me, the fun in the past was, and still is to me, trying to DM in the arenas. This is just completely my opinion, but once in ADM, there is not much "risk" anymore since they can no longer die. The fun for me is the danger of the basic arenas. While dissapointing to lose a warrior you have been working on, that is what is fun, being on the edge of losing them. Not saying I will never run in ADM when I get someone there, but just will not be my focus.

Bandit, I agree. The 19 fight guy is fun. He never wins pretty, but his fights are fun. I always imagined him as a guy that drags himself out of the tavern 15 mins before a fight and has enough luck and skill to stay alive. Kind of a crusty old SOB.
View user's profileSend private message
The Consortium
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8822
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

tas2826 wrote:
Thanks to all for the feedback.

I decided to get my feet wet again with team1. Since they were in Seam I had to move them, so I decided to go to Sunset, looks like a big, active arena, lots of folks to challenge. So, if the mail makes it there by the due date, you should see a new team on the radar.

The other 2 teams, I am still evaluating. There are a couple warriors I think I want to try. They will definitely be just arena guys but I think they will be fun to try and win with.

For me, the fun in the past was, and still is to me, trying to DM in the arenas. This is just completely my opinion, but once in ADM, there is not much "risk" anymore since they can no longer die. The fun for me is the danger of the basic arenas. While dissapointing to lose a warrior you have been working on, that is what is fun, being on the edge of losing them. Not saying I will never run in ADM when I get someone there, but just will not be my focus.

Bandit, I agree. The 19 fight guy is fun. He never wins pretty, but his fights are fun. I always imagined him as a guy that drags himself out of the tavern 15 mins before a fight and has enough luck and skill to stay alive. Kind of a crusty old SOB.


Sunset is a fine arena and a great "fun" choice.
Good luck there.
The formerly SEAM Animal Farm , now in DM11, was hoping to remeet up with you there in Aruak City. Perhaps you will start another team there when you get your feet wet?
Again, welcome back.

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1000 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 105K+ fights and 68K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1518*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1460; Lenpros DM30 @ 1424; Fandils @ 1336
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Grimm
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 1007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Nomad I think you explained it well, but I am only pro-DA in 84. I DA like mad in there because 84 is a tourny arena. Yes, I am looking for guys who have that potential to dominate a level in tournament. In all my other arenas (where I run full teams) I run lots of junk, god look at 81, ewwww.

As for you Consortium, if you read what I said you wll see your advice was unfair, not you in particular.

You did not explain to him how or why to run any of these guys. You just told him you do not agree with DA'ing for godlings. His question wasn't should I DA all these guys and look for gods? Why did you defensively jump to your no DA answer? Maybe explaining that many of your marginal guys win because of certain strats or defensive designs may be helpful. Tas is not up to speed, I rather bring him up to speed about some of the nuances of the game, not hope he can figure it out on his own. I thank Managerr and Guardian for doing this for me when I came back 5-6 years ago.

Tas it really comes down to having fun and being competitive. If you want to do it trial and error to start, don't get too frustrated if you have a bit of troubles. The game is very refined. Try to figure what guys are doing to you. If you need any help do not hesitate to write.

_________________
Willy hears ya, Willy don't care.
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB 2.0.10 © 2001 phpBB Group

Version 2.0.6 of PHP-Nuke Port by Tom Nitzschner © 2002 www.toms-home.com
Forums ©
:: fisubsilver shadow phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by coldblooded (www.nukemods.com) ::