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Duel2 :: View topic - NCAA 2012 Football
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Whoa, what a great upset by Stanford. #2 USC Trojans go down. Hasta make TGG mighty happy!

Are the Irish on the rise again? 10th ranked Michigan State is spanked by the Knute Rockne & Win One For The Gipper tradition.

Here in South Carolina, we locals are proud of both top eleven schools as The Gamecocks massacre in The Cockpit and The Tigers roar in Death Valley. Can they both stay in the top ten scenario or are one or both heartbreakers.

As always, The Tide rolls on.

Go Tigers!

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GreekGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The loss to Florida by Tennessee was ..um...upsetting..but at least I did get that ray of good news as Freakin Lane Kiffin lost.... that turned my frown upside down.
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Scruffy Puff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Is Stanford beating USC really an upset? The ranking system is such a joke.

USC was never the 2nd best team in the nation, and any SEC ranked in the top 10 not named LSU or UA is laughable. Arkansas at 8 last week?? Tennessee in the top 100?? Please.
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Darque
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Scruffy Puff wrote:
Is Stanford beating USC really an upset? The ranking system is such a joke.

USC was never the 2nd best team in the nation, and any SEC ranked in the top 10 not named LSU or UA is laughable. Arkansas at 8 last week?? Tennessee in the top 100?? Please.


Yes, it was an upset. All these teams are ranked according to the talent they have on the team at any given time, granted at times it does seem arbitrary and odd how they are ranked, but the system isn't complete crap as you always imply. On paper USC was the better team -- my evidence is the recruiting classes. Stanford had the better recruiting class in 2012 (#5 to USC #8 according to the scale Rivals.com uses). But you have to go back to 2009 (maybe even as far back as 2008 in some cases) to get the better picture.

2009: USC #4 - Stanford #20
2010: USC #1 - Stanford #26
2011: USC #4 - Stanford #22
2012: USC #8 - Stanford #5

So in the last 4 years, USC has an average standing of 4.25, while Stanford has the average standing of 18.25. You play that game 10 times and USC is going to come out on top more than not. So yes, it was an upset by the most basic definition of the word, apart from the rankings. If I believed in karma, I'd say USC lost that game because of Lane Kiffin, and many more are to come as the universe pays him back for years of social and professional ineptitude.

However, with all that said, I do agree with you on the SEC being over-rated in this years poll.

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Scruffy Puff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Coaching, chemistry, tactics, and preparation, etc. have nothing to do with wins and losses? It's all about how good college players were during their senior year in HS? I respectfully disagree. Wink

Sometimes one program is simply better than another program, regardless of the supposed talent of a recruiting class.

Example: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--numbers-don-t-lie--stanford-owns-better-football-program-than-usc.html
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Tripwire
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree. I think rankings shouldn't even come out until Week 5 at the earliest.

But with the system they use they have to put SOMEONE in the current top 10. Here is mine based on simply what they have as talent and my gut feelings.

1 Alabama
2 LSU
3 FSU
4 Oregon
5 West Virginia
6 Oklahoma
7 Stanford
8 Georgia
9 Clemson
10 Texas

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Darque
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Scruffy Puff wrote:
Coaching, chemistry, tactics, and preparation, etc. have nothing to do with wins and losses? It's all about how good college players were during their senior year in HS? I respectfully disagree. Wink

Sometimes one program is simply better than another program, regardless of the supposed talent of a recruiting class.

Example: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--numbers-don-t-lie--stanford-owns-better-football-program-than-usc.html


Now you are making an argument to silence in regards to coaching, chemistry, and tactics. I never said they did not matter. I can't measure chemistry, preparation, or preparation. I did point out Kiffin is an idiot, but you chose to overlook that colorful statement.

My point was the talent level of players on a national scale belongs to USC. If that isn't true and I have no point, then lets start our own talent scout group for colleges and just focus on the 1-star recruits that everyone passes over. If your point is correct and their HS talent means absolutely nothing, then we are sitting on a gold mine.

As to the article, no, numbers don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole story either. If they did, we'd have an influx of mathematicians as football coaches.

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Darque
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tripwire wrote:
I agree. I think rankings shouldn't even come out until Week 5 at the earliest.

But with the system they use they have to put SOMEONE in the current top 10. Here is mine based on simply what they have as talent and my gut feelings.

1 Alabama
2 LSU
3 FSU
4 Oregon
5 West Virginia
6 Oklahoma
7 Stanford
8 Georgia
9 Clemson
10 Texas


I personally think that you have FSU and Clemson are too high. I think WVU should be higher based solely upon what they didn't lose from last season, probably ahead of FSU, though not Oregon. So I agree for the most part -- Texas ahead of Clemson.

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Scruffy Puff
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Darque wrote:


2009: USC #4 - Stanford #20
2010: USC #1 - Stanford #26
2011: USC #4 - Stanford #22
2012: USC #8 - Stanford #5

So in the last 4 years, USC has an average standing of 4.25, while Stanford has the average standing of 18.25. You play that game 10 times and USC is going to come out on top more than not. So yes, it was an upset by the most basic definition of the word, apart from the rankings.


Are you sure? Out of curiosity, who won all four of the years you mentioned above?

While I respect your opinion and POV, games aren't played on paper (and yes, I see the irony of making that statement on a D2 forum).

Darque wrote:

I did point out Kiffin is an idiot, but you chose to overlook that colorful statement.


I didn't mean to overlook your statement. I thought I indirectly referred to Kiffin when I mentioned coaching. Saying Kiffin is an idiot is like saying gravity exists. I think Thomas Jefferson said it best when he said, "We regard some truths as self evident." Smile
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

We were looking forward to this "discussion" when we started this thread. Scruffy, thanks for making it dynamic and debatable, as usual. NCAA football seems to bring out the differences and passions in all of us.
WOWSER!

As far as our rankings, they tend to be in line with Trip and Darque - kinda. After all, it is simply too early to be able feel comfortably solid with our ratings.

We look forward to the Clemson good guys/FSU bums game Saturday night, to weed out the "best" from the ACC. (Who knows? Maybe it will be Notre Dame? Rolling Eyes ) With the bad bums being a 12-14 point favorite at home, it might prove interesting - or boring to some. GO TIGERS!

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Tripwire
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Go Gators!

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Street_Legal
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I hate to say it but I think Oregon would lay a "Red Ass" on Florida!

Much like the Kiffin argument I hate Saban for leaving MSU just as he was building it into a powerhouse. That left us with Bobby Williams, never a head coach before or after MSU, and then that incredible "Crack Head" John L Smith. The only team I see capable of beating Alabama is ........ Alabama.

West Virginia's defense is BRUTALLY bad. After the Baylor game I knew they were a fraud.

Kansas State and Oregon State are "Dark Horse" National Title contenders.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Street_Legal wrote:
I hate to say it but I think Oregon would lay a "Red Ass" on Florida!

Much like the Kiffin argument I hate Saban for leaving MSU just as he was building it into a powerhouse. That left us with Bobby Williams, never a head coach before or after MSU, and then that incredible "Crack Head" John L Smith. The only team I see capable of beating Alabama is ........ Alabama.

West Virginia's defense is BRUTALLY bad. After the Baylor game I knew they were a fraud.

Kansas State and Oregon State are "Dark Horse" National Title contenders.


Not a gator fan. (nor SEC). But having seen Florida in action, now, I do believe that red ass would be from the duck blood in the gator mouth as they gobbled the fowl down quickly and easily,

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The Consortium wrote:


Not a gator fan. (nor SEC). But having seen Florida in action, now, I do believe that red ass would be from the duck blood in the gator mouth as they gobbled the fowl down quickly and easily,


To which action are you referring? The 3-point squeaker over unranked Texas A&M or their 13 point drubbing at home versus perennial powerhouse Bowling Green?

FL is much improved this year, and has an extremely soft schedule remaining - until they get to the SEC championship game. If they beat AL there, and OREGON wins out, perhaps FL get a chance to prove your bold statement. Neither of those scenarios look particularly realistic, though.
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Tripwire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Scruffy Puff wrote:
The Consortium wrote:


Not a gator fan. (nor SEC). But having seen Florida in action, now, I do believe that red ass would be from the duck blood in the gator mouth as they gobbled the fowl down quickly and easily,


To which action are you referring? The 3-point squeaker over unranked Texas A&M or their 13 point drubbing at home versus perennial powerhouse Bowling Green?

FL is much improved this year, and has an extremely soft schedule remaining - until they get to the SEC championship game. If they beat AL there, and OREGON wins out, perhaps FL get a chance to prove your bold statement. Neither of those scenarios look particularly realistic, though.


#1 strength of schedule in the nation and its just that Florida is lucky. They only beat LSU, South Carolina and Texas A&M @ College Station. Also TA&M only other loss was to LSU by 4 and they are still in the top 20 in the nation.

And we still have #10 Georgia and # 12 FLorida State on the schedule to go.

What other team in the nation has even come close to playing the current #6, #10, #12, #13, and #20 (and they were all higher when we played them. The reason they went down was because we beat them.)

I mean I know its hard to compare to the mighty Oregon schedule right? They should whip us! I mean lets look at who they played.. Oregon has beaten..... oh wait no one currently in the top 25..

Soooo for someone to say Florida is proven on the field and oregon isn't would be pretty fair to say wouldn't it?

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