Joined: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:35 am
I have a few guys in advanced stuck on 119 skills. My worst case is 24 turns stuck at 119. He did train stats for 3 of those turns so 21 turns at 119. Two of my 119ers are eligible for Primus and I am thinking of sending them there to get that last skill(plus the primus ones). My other options are to continue to be frustrated while they learn nothing, or to just burn the last one. With the changes to Primus, burning skills does not seem as bad as it used to be. What do you guys think?
_________________ Stillgard
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Last edited by Stillgard on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
One Armed Bandit ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 2960
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:44 am
Burning skills in ADM is definitely not as bad as it used to be. I've had a few guys learn all 120 and its hard work. If that last skill is in a relatively inconsequential area like Init, Rip, or Dec, I'd definitely burn it. You can always pick it up later in Primus.
Expect to lose a lot initially if you decide to move your guy to Primus. However, the improved learning definitely beats being frustrated over learning nothing turn after turn in regular ADM.
Of your options, I would choose either stat training in ADM or moving the guy to Primus. Spending turn after turn looking for that 120th skill seems like the worst choice! Best of luck, whatever you decide.
MarmaDuke Grandmaster Poster
Joined: Jul 20, 2009
Posts: 869
Location: NYC tri-state area
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 am
I would move the guy to Primus for several reasons:
- You have the additional 5 skills per skill type to learn - increasing your maxed available skills to learn will surely help you learn that 120th skill and then eventually up to 150
- Initally, you'll generally fight warriors that have more skills than you... therefore increasing the likelikhood that you'll learn skills more rapidly.
- Increased stat train rate
Once a warrior is classified as an Eligilbe, and as a result has the ability to transfer to the DM102 Primus arena, their development is sped up greatly by making the move. As OAB previously stated.... you will take a butt whooping for a whlie until your guy develops. Keep in mind, once you're in the Primus arena, you'll be low man on the totem pole often times fighting guys with 50 to 100 more skills than you....
It's worth it in the long run imho.... have fun with him!!!
_________________ -Marma Duke-
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May your blades always be sharp, and your opponents armor always have rust.....
The Consortium ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 10146
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:33 am
We cannot add anything more than OAB and Marms did.
Good luck.
_________________ The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
_Buri_ ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 1040
Location: Asgard
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:00 am
I would say that getting all 120 is old-school thinking. I did it on a lot of my guys, but that was back before the extra Primus skill learning kicked in. Back then, that was the way to go. These days, it is not. It's a lot easier to burn now, advancing your fighter faster, and get the skills back later in Primus, where you can challenge guys with 300 fights.
One thing to remember is that Eligibles, while allowed to get the extra skill learns if they go to the Primus arena, cannot get those skills in the Eligibles tourney.
_________________ Buri, Crapmaster 2012, Crapgiver 2017
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Street_Legal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: The Big D (etroit) area
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:09 pm
If you just want to accomplish it in ADM just to say it then challenge someone you know is maxxed+ in that area or is a style that learns alot in that particular area (TPs and Parry styles for PAR; LU and SL for INI; AB for ATT, etc.). Otherwise, as the others have said, you'll drive yourself mad trying to get it. The last 5-10 are always hard and the last 3 seem near to impossible and just a waste of fights that could be spent developing stats!
Of the 3 guys I have run extensively in ADM, all LUs, the closest I have come to maxxing was Beavis (14-3996) and after almost 10 fights with no learns I just burned the last 2 ATT and 1 DEC. Next closest was Joe Satriani (11-4422) who maxxed out all but PAR, minus 1 DEF and 1 DEC I had burned in basic, I gave in early because he was at 13 PAR learned and I just burned off the last 7 PAR right away knowing PAR is least important to the style. Well not right away but I went right to stats I should say and ignored even trying to learn the last 7.
_________________ A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
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MarmaDuke Grandmaster Poster
Joined: Jul 20, 2009
Posts: 869
Location: NYC tri-state area
Posted:
Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:42 am
Back in the day it was a badge of honor to learn all 120. However now with the ability to learn back "burned skills" once you're in the Primus DM102 arena, there is much less incentive to go straight skills to 120 and then burn. It is far more common to learn less than 120 these days, hopefully learning the "core skills" for that style in their entirety, and then burning to enhance those already maxed core skills. Once you hit 102, you can relearn the burns as if they never occured.
_________________ -Marma Duke-
Deviation, State of Mind, Da Dog Powndaz, Pyromania, Rap Attacks, Slamma Jamma
May your blades always be sharp, and your opponents armor always have rust.....
Darque ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2002
Posts: 2528
Location: Virginia
Posted:
Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:16 am
What does every one believe are the "core" skills for each style. Opinions will certainly vary depending on how people run certain warriors. By core skills, I mean those skills you want to max out before you begin training stats and burning less optimal skills.
My thoughts are:
AB -- DEF, ATT
BA -- DEC, ATT, maybe INI
LU -- DEF, ATT
PL -- PAR, DEF, ATT
PR -- PAR, ATT
PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)
SL -- DEC, ATT
ST -- DEC, ATT
TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP
WS -- PAR, ATT, maybe RIP
Once again, I stress that managerial style and design goals will influence such a list. Based on my playing style and ability, the above shows what I focus upon under normal circumstances.
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 2227
Location: Fargo, ND
Posted:
Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:59 pm
Two questions as I now have warriors struggling to get to 120 and getting close to Primus.
1. What about defense? When I first got back into the game it seemed like defense was a critical ADM skill because so many parries were getting slipped. Does that make defense a critical skill for everyone? What about my slasher who has 116 learned skills, but only 17 defense?
2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.
Otto_X Grandmaster Poster
Joined: Jan 09, 2003
Posts: 721
Location: Moline, IL
Posted:
Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:54 pm
I think many managers would rank defense as the #1 thing to be maxed out. However, it's not always an option with some styles that tend to fill out their defense last.
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Street_Legal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: The Big D (etroit) area
Posted:
Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:30 am
Here's an example that may just give you another view of it. The guy was not that great but was fairly decent and has never run in ADM. I think it exemplifies Slashers and DEFense:
This clown has a favorite learn of DEF and decides to learn it tied for 3rd with DEC and WAY behind ATT and INI. I cannot say IF the skill is important in ADM to a Slasher but I think this shows that SLs may tend to ignore it. Or so says this lone example of mine!
In Primus don't you have a shot right away to learn any skills you may burn from a stat train? It would seem so, or how would they "lock" the ability to learn it back and then unlock it? When you hit all 25s in stats? If my understanding is correct you could burn a 20 WT all the way to 25, or just to 21, and immediately start learning those burned skills back (as it counts against your "Primus skills" 21-25) the very next turn even. Is this understanding incorrect?
_________________ A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
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Last edited by Street_Legal on Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
One Armed Bandit ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 2960
Posted:
Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:32 am
Nomad wrote:
2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.
Nope. You can train to all 25s if you want and then learn skills and it won't handicap your warrior.
Assurnasirbanipal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1771
Location: San Jose, CA
Posted:
Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 am
One Armed Bandit wrote:
Nomad wrote:
2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.
Nope. You can train to all 25s if you want and then learn skills and it won't handicap your warrior.
Shhh, don't reveal my secret warrior...
Assurnasirbanipal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1771
Location: San Jose, CA
Posted:
Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:49 am
Thanks Darque, this is a great launching point for discussion. I loved the way he gives a nice answer, summarized by, "Learn the important skills."
There are definitely many different answers for important. Darque's answer focuses on the strengths and needs of each warrior (and I won't argue the details in this thread).
Another answer for important might be the Primus ranking of skills:
#1: Defense
<Big Gap>
#2: Attack
<HUGE ENORMOUS GAP>
#3: Parry
<GAP>
#4: Decisiveness
#5: Initiative
#6: Riposte
Darque wrote:
What does every one believe are the "core" skills for each style. Opinions will certainly vary depending on how people run certain warriors. By core skills, I mean those skills you want to max out before you begin training stats and burning less optimal skills.
My thoughts are:
AB -- DEF, ATT
BA -- DEC, ATT, maybe INI
LU -- DEF, ATT
PL -- PAR, DEF, ATT
PR -- PAR, ATT
PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)
SL -- DEC, ATT
ST -- DEC, ATT
TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP
WS -- PAR, ATT, maybe RIP
Once again, I stress that managerial style and design goals will influence such a list. Based on my playing style and ability, the above shows what I focus upon under normal circumstances.
Managerr ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 4294
Location: Omaha
Posted:
Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:53 am
To further clarify, if you plan on an sort of ADM TOURNAMENT career, you generally want to BURN THE LAST FEW SKILLS OFF AS FAST AS YOU CAN.
The reason for this is that the lines are strongly determined by the # of skills you have--so the strategy is to get as many value skills as you can while still staying under the skill line. You'd rather have more ATT/DEF/Core Skill, than you would Init or Rip for example.
Quote:
PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)
In ADM, it switches to ATT/PAR/DEF (But somewhat irrelevant as PS's and other low skill base styles can easily get whatever it wants while still staying under the line)
Quote:
ST -- DEC, ATT
For ADM. For Eligibles, I'd say you need ATT, DEF . A lot of good ADM Strikers also tend to have a lot of Parry (since they end up maxxing ST due to high Attack), so there may be a pseudo Parry build you can work with if you don't burn off too many Parry too. (I'm not going to spend years to try one though)
Quote:
TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP
Parry Only. ATT more important than Defense, and you'll end up getting enough when training ST/WL/DF.
Quote:
However, it's not always an option with some styles that tend to fill out their defense last.
Let's not insult the other styles. We all know Slashers are the runt of the litter in this category.
Quote:
My other options are to continue to be frustrated while they learn nothing, or to just burn the last one.
My best advice if you have a warrior that needs to wait is to put him on maintenance and forget about him, until you're surprised one day and see that he maxxed his skills! I have a warrior that hasn't learned anything in 2 years now.
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