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Duel2 :: View topic - New rollups for a returning manager
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Painmaster33
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Joined: Jan 07, 2014
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi everyone as some may know I am returning to the game soon.i received 4 rollups from a very nice manager to get me going again.

Here is one rollup I kinda know what to look for but will need emence help at first so I am posting here

10 8 11 9 11 8 13
13 15 14 11 3 9 5
4 8 12 11 15 13 7
8 9 6 16 9 10 12
3 14 13 7 14 10 9


5 15 16 11 6 6 11
7 13 19 17 8 3 3
8 13 7 11 9 16 6
3 12 19 11 4 12 9
4 13 8 12 5 13 15

9 5 12 12 6 11 15
10 5 16 4 16 14 5
12 6 13 12 4 13 10
10 8 11 12 13 6 10
9 9 13 9 13 4 13


14 8 7 12 5 13 11
8 5 15 11 14 12 5
5 11 17 11 5 10 11
11 5 17 11 11 3 12
10 10 16 9 5 5 15


Thank everyone ahead of time for looking. Any and all critizem is appreciated. Also I have purchased 4 RUs of my own that im going to look at before making any decisions thanks a lot!
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The Consortium
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Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8757
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Others may respond differently, but here is The Consortium method of helping/advising designs:
1. We do not offer designs first. In other words, we will not design it for you.
2. We would like to see YOUR opinions first. That makes for a more useful, training sort of discussion. It also shows that you have opinions and have done some work/thought.
3. We will gladly provide plenty of input after #2.

Here, from the past Noblish Island Newsletter is The Consortium design and thought process:

WARRIOR/TEAM DESIGN
HOW A DM/D2 VETERAN DOES IT

There is a purpose for writing this spotlight. It was developed to provide newer/inexperienced D2 managers with warrior and team design concepts and to assist newbies in observing the details of a real-time team who will be competing against them in their Noblish Island arena. I will discuss the following:
1. An experienced manager’s general design principles
2. Some thoughts on team balance
3. The real five-warrior design (original team roll-up) starting to compete on Noblish Island
4. Summary and comments relevant to those designs
First you might ask, “Who is writing this? And I answer that I am Ponce de Leon, manager of Old El Paso, a member of The Consortium, and a long, long time (25+ year) competitor in Duelmasters/D2. I will be overseeing this new team and will be offering you advice each round on Noblish Island. Feel free to ask me (or Jorja, or Assur) questions in the personal ads. You will get answers; most probably you will get several answers.
There is no one-and-only perfect design for any warrior. You will often find that when asking for experienced design advice, varying opinions and concepts are offered. However, there are some guidelines that each manager uses. The Consortium general design principles are:
1. Design to strengths/excesses, making high roll numbers higher
2. WT is the first factor examined, followed by WL, which determines the design and style direction.
3. Offensive oriented warriors need higher WT to last. Design to 15, 17, 21 for skill breaks
4. All warriors except AB must have normal damage and really need good. Make certain that ST/SZ allow that and have high enough WL to bump stats if not.
5. 9 WL is the acceptable low for offensives. Some warriors can do well with 7 or 8 but not lower.
6. Do not add to CN for pure offensives.
7. Defensive style warriors need solid WL and CN.
8. Physicals never hurt any warrior. Warriors can win early with lesser skill, but good physicals.
9. If all else fails, make the design a TP. They can win under almost any circumstance. However, they need a higher combination (total) of CN, WL, and ST. (especially WL)
10. If the warrior is to be long-term (meaning a godling or really, really nice roll), do not design a burner. (A burner is one where the manager intends to raise stats and physicals as a major strategy to enhanced winning.)
11. However, there is not a thing wrong with making a burner.
12. Have variation in styles in arenas. This allows for better challenging and matchups. (With fun and learning through variety.)
13. PRIMARY PRINCIPAL: Design each warrior with the idea of winning 60%+ of its fights. Period.
Pretty simple, it would seem. Well, we will see how I applied these principals to the Old El Paso Team. But first some comments on team design.
A variety of styles is important. Why? (a) The more differing styles you experiment with, the more you learn. (b) It is more fun to run differing types. (c) Certain styles are susceptible to other styles and having a variety allows you to take advantage (or avoid) of those susceptibilities. (d) Testing multiple styles allows you to quicker find the style/s that you enjoy most or are best with.
I believe a manager, especially a new manager, should have at least these two warriors on his team – an especially fast/quick, decent damage offensive (striker, basher, or maybe slasher) and a scummy warrior with lots of physicals and who wins by wearing down foes while parrying or sucking up hit points. (Total parry or maybe wall-of-steel or parry strike.) It is important to learn how to win with both types, and the ST (striker) and TP (total parry) are excellent designs to do both – teach and win. This combination is invaluable because each tends to challenge and avoid different styles, and most importantly, they are both easy to work with. The other warriors on the team can/should be different, but I least recommend these more difficult styles for rookie managers. AB – aimed blow, PR – parry riposte, PS – parry strike, PL – parry lunge, and WS – wall of steel.
Now on to a real life example. Below are listed the starting statistics (from the roll-up sheet) and the design statistics (filled out and sent in by Ponce de Leon) of his team just started on Noblish Island.
16-11-13-12-5-4-9 to 17-11-13-17-9-6-11 ST (striker) Design to strengths (concept #1), which is either ST or WT. Seldom are 21 ST warriors worth the value, so I selected to add to WT to the 17 break point. This design will clearly be offensive, due to low WL, so I bump the WL to the min 9. (And nice break point with a decise skill) I need to take the skills and value of 17 ST, so I add one there, leaving 4. I take the DF to 11, which is normally where I like to have all designs, except AB. The last two are placed on SP, since he is definitely looking like a striker. I am expecting the rollup to come back with great damage and normal endurance – these being the two best physical representations of a warrior.
7-13-11-12-10-6-11 to 11-17-11-12-16-6-11 TP (total parry) I know that I want a TP on this team, and a brief glance at the roll up sheet led me to this choice. Using the first Consortium principle above, I know I want to maximize CN, which works well for a TP Scum. Before I do that, I know that a good TP or scum needs as much WL as possible, both for physicals, and for making stat increases as easy as possible. Hence, I add 6 to WL first. The other 8 points seem best distributable between ST and CN for a total parry. I want to be able to wear APA/F without over encumbering my warrior, and I cannot do that without 11+ ST. Therefore, I add 4 to ST and 4 to CN. The interesting thing about this rollup is that it could have been made into almost anything because of the reasonably high WT. But, it became the TP I wanted/needed.
14-13-11-11-7-8-6 to 15-17-11-17-9-8-7 BA (basher) This could be an interesting design and a fun warrior to manage. Consortium rule one would have me optimizing ST and CN, almost as though this will be a scummy warrior. But the low WL precludes making it a true physical-type warrior. The relatively high WT led me to believe I should optimize it to 17, and still sort of optimizing ST and CN. So I then bumped WL 2 to the minimum 9, put 1 on DF to get lots of skills and to assure some reasonable weapons (there are very, very few that allow DF below 7) and placed the last 5 points on ST and CN, making a basher that could be either (or both) offensive and scummy. The real choice was 15ST/17CN or 17ST/15CN, and I chose the latter as I plan to take advantage of the scumminess of this warrior. Realize, though, this warrior can be run very similar to the 1st warrior (the ST) and work out to be a pure offensive, with lots of hit points. We old timers call this type of design a tank basher.
15-7-11-4-9-8-16 to 15-7-11-7-15-8-21 AB (aimed blow) First principle = optimize the strengths, and in this case, that is DF. When DF can be 21, most managers are thinking aimed blow. Not that it has to be AB, as in the Consortium there are definitely 21 DFs in other styles, but think aimer first. .If I hadn’t already had a ST and BA on the team, I might have considered making this roll into one of those styles. Most like high WT and some CN on their aimers, but I cannot have both here. Let’s first WL to 15, allowing be a better chance at improving stats later. The 3 left went to WT, giving the aimer some sort of decent weapons to work with – LS, DA, SS, and there is always the fist.
6-10-13-10-11-11-9 to 9-10-13-16-16-11-9 LU (lunger) I optimized WT and WL and placed the last 3 points on ST. This looks more like a LU to me than a SL, especially since I can use SS with the LU, but do not really have a good weapon for a SL. When I see designs with both 16 WT and 16WL, in all likelihood, this is going to be a “burner”. Burner means stat training as opposed to skill training. My “ending” lunger will probably be 9-11-13-17-17-12-11 or 11-11-13-17-17-12-11.
Good luck competing against my Old El Paso warriors. I suspect this team will meet the 60% objective and each warrior will do its part. They will be a competitive team and they will both challenge and avoid.
Now let’s take a look at the overall design tendencies for this team in this situation. We had 70 points to add to the designs. Totaled, they look like this:
ST = 9 (More than usual, probably, but starting STs of 6 & 7 make this appropriate; it is difficult to win with very low strength)
CN = 8 (SP and CN are usually the least added stats; the one TP and the tank basher caused the whole eight; usually this stat tendency is near zero; it is hard to win with scum without high CN)
SZ = 0 (Cannot add to size.)
WT = 20 (One of two most valuable stats. Many points added here makes sense.)
WL = 23 (One of two most valuable stats. It is difficult to win without WT AND WL.)
SP = 2 (SP and CN are usually the least added stats; looks good)
DF = 8 (DF additions are often quite variable and this amount looks typical.)
The tendencies look reasonable to me, as WT and WL are prime stats, ST and DF are probably next, and CN/SP are usually least added. (Well, except for SZ!)
So there you have it: a new team; insight to warrior and team design; useful tidbits from an ancient veteran. May your stay in D2 be long and prosperous, and, most of all, fun. (Mine has been.)

Ponce de Leon
Consortium affiliated

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
991 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 103K+ fights and 66K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1505*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1446; Lenpros DM30 @ 1410; Fandils @ 1321
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_Buri_
Grandmaster Poster
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Joined: Nov 07, 2010
Posts: 794
Location: Asgard

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Painmaster33 wrote:
Hi everyone as some may know I am returning to the game soon.i received 4 rollups from a very nice manager to get me going again.

Here is one rollup I kinda know what to look for but will need emence help at first so I am posting here

10 8 11 9 11 8 13 .... 10-8-11-15-17-8-15 LU/SL
13 15 14 11 3 9 5 .... 13-15-14-17-5-9-11 ST or 13-15-14-17-9-9-7 BA
4 8 12 11 15 13 7 .... 6-8-12-17-21-13-7 or 6-8-12-17-17-13-11 ?
8 9 6 16 9 10 12 .... 10-9-6-21-15-10-13 ST/SL or 11-11-6-21-9-10-17 PR
3 14 13 7 14 10 9 .... 7-14-13-11-20-10-9 TP raise WL, DF, ST


5 15 16 11 6 6 11 .... 9-15-16-17-9-7-11 ST
7 13 19 17 8 3 3 .... 7-13-19-21-9-8-7 ST
8 13 7 11 9 16 6 .... 11-13-7-17-9-16-11 PS
3 12 19 11 4 12 9 .... 9-12-19-17-4-12-11 ST
4 13 8 12 5 13 15 .... 5-13-8-17-7-13-21 AB

9 5 12 12 6 11 15 .... 11-5-12-17-7-11-21 AB
10 5 16 4 16 14 5 .... 11-5-16-4-21-16-11 LU da or dixie cup
12 6 13 12 4 13 10 .... 15-6-13-17-9-13-11 ST
10 8 11 12 13 6 10 .... 11-8-11-17-17-7-13 LU/SL
9 9 13 9 13 4 13 .... 11-11-13-15-17-4-13 WS


14 8 7 12 5 13 11 .... 17-8-7-17-9-13-13 BA
8 5 15 11 14 12 5 .... 9-5-15-17-15-12-11 ST/SL
5 11 17 11 5 10 11 .... 9-11-17-17-9-10-11 ST
11 5 17 11 11 3 12 .... 11-5-17-17-17-4-13 LU/BA
10 10 16 9 5 5 15 .... 11-11-16-15-5-5-21 AB


Thank everyone ahead of time for looking. Any and all critizem is appreciated. Also I have purchased 4 RUs of my own that im going to look at before making any decisions thanks a lot!


Your 4th sheet there, I've had that same one myself at least 3 times that I know of. Warrior #4 continues to intrigue me, I've sent him in as a WS every time, 11-7-17-17-17-3-12, 17-5-17-13-17-3-12 twice and gotten tremendous damage on all of them. The first guy I've run in a few tourneys, and raised stats in between, but he's been the very definition of mediocre.
This last time, I actually sent in 2 of these sheets at the exact same time, with the exact same numbers, just as an experiment, never really intending to ever run them. I called them Red Squad and Blue Squad, and Red Squad rolled up better than Blue for all five warriors.

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Buri, Crapmaster 2012
Aesir 003 & 100 & 102, The Club 010, The Blues 021, Omnitrix 030, Venture Bros 051
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Assurnasirbanipal
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Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1451
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm also going to respond in a slightly non-standard way.

When I look at a team, I look for one or more warriors to build around. Unless there is at least one warrior I really want to run, the team loses interest for me. Here are guys that 'might' fight that bill for me on the teams you posted:

Team #1
4-8-12-11-15-13-7 -> 8-8-12-15-19-13-9 is the only one that catches my interest. Some nice bustable numbers.

Team #2
7-13-19-17-8-3-3 looks like my kind of guy. Unlikely he'll be tourney worthy in basic, but a size 19, 21 wit guy is pretty unique. This is my favorite guy of all of them.

Team #3
10-5-16-4-16-14-5 makes a classic Dixie LS lunger. I've been interested in these for awhile, because nobody makes them anymore. I'm wondering if the right one could actually do something in Rookies.
9-9-13-9-13-4-13 -> 13-13-13-13-13-6-13 (one of my goals is to graduate a sext-13 guy)

Team #4
8-5-15-11-14-12-5 -> 8-5-15-15-20-12-9 (See comments on team #1 guy)

There are some other good warriors, but nothing that I'm going to get excited about (unless they roll very well). Even the guys I've listed aren't super exciting, but I'd be more than willing to roll up the teams because of the guys I've listed. That said, other than the Dixie LS lunger (who gets his rookie run), none of these teams would see action anytime soon because I've got more interesting guys waiting to be run as it is.
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One Armed Bandit
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Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 2569

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The 1st team roll-up looks the best for finding a tourney warrior:

8-9-6-16-9-10-12 --> 10-9-6-21-15-10-13 ST

If he rolls up with Normal or Good damage, he should make a solid Rookie entry. It reminds me a bit of the starting numbers of Ura Goner (a multiple TC Striker). Not exactly, but close enough that I'd want to try it.

The 4th team roll-up looks the best for starting a new team:

14-8-7-12-5-13-11 --> 17-8-7-17-10-14-11 ST
8-5-15-11-14-12-5 --> 11-5-15-17-17-12-7 SL
5-11-17-11-5-10-11 --> probably DA
11-5-17-11-11-3-12 --> 11-5-17-17-17-4-13 LU
10-10-16-9-5-5-15 --> 10-10-16-15-7-5-21 AB

Even the one that I have marked DA could be turned into something for basic play in a pinch. I'd be surprised if you found a better all-around team from your 4 team roll-ups that are on the way from RSI, but I wish you luck!
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