Critique some of my warriors

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:47 am

Tell me what you think, as most of these were designed a long time ago. Maybe your opinions will be different than I'm guessing. I'm not telling the ones I really like and expect to do well, either. I doubt design has changed that much in ten years--so don't think this is my best. Far from it.

Some I don't like all too much but plan to run a bit anyhow:

ST, 13-10-11-15-5-13-17, good damage, planned to DA after a couple turns hoping for a couple cheap wins.

ST, 11-10-6-17-8-15-17, ex rip, again hoping for some cheap wins

WS, 10(1)-9-12-15-21-5-13, +/- 18 FE, ex init, ma att, adex par. Good damage/end. Sentimental favorite

WS, 9-11-7-13-21-14-9, good damage. Maybe I just didn't know what to do with it when I made it? It's an old one.

AB, 8-6-15-21-9-8-17, ex att. I like AB's but I've always been tired of low WL fighters.

AB, 4-3-14-15-15-12-21, +/- 4 FE, ex att, good damage. I'm thinking I'll kill him before someone else does but I suspect he could end up decent, I recall he learned well.

LU, 10-5-15-17-17-5-15, +/- 4 FE, ex init & att, great damage. I don't like LU but I like the great damage. If I liked lungers more (and everybody didn't run four of them on a team Wink

) maybe this one would rank higher in my estimation.

SL, 9-4-13-15-15-17-11, haven't seen rollup yet. Might DA if it doesn't do better than that 11 DF makes me think.

PL, 9-10-13-17-15-7-13, good damage. Whatcha gonna do, I guess.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:17 am

Some I don't like all too much but plan to run a bit anyhow:

ST, 13-10-11-15-5-13-17, good damage, planned to DA after a couple turns hoping for a couple cheap wins.
He coould be worth trying out, give him chance. Should have been a PR.

ST, 11-10-6-17-8-15-17, ex rip, again hoping for some cheap wins
He would do well, I have a ST similar to him doing very well, Should have been a PR though.

WS, 10(1)-9-12-15-21-5-13, +/- 18 FE, ex init, ma att, adex par. Good damage/end. Sentimental favorite
Not much to say, he looks good.

WS, 9-11-7-13-21-14-9, good damage. Maybe I just didn't know what to do with it when I made it? It's an old one.
I would have DA'd him, but the you could run him offensive with the decent speed you have.

AB, 8-6-15-21-9-8-17, ex att. I like AB's but I've always been tired of low WL fighters.
A keeper.

AB, 4-3-14-15-15-12-21, +/- 4 FE, ex att, good damage. I'm thinking I'll kill him before someone else does but I suspect he could end up decent, I recall he learned well.
I'm jealous, I want this guy!!

LU, 10-5-15-17-17-5-15, +/- 4 FE, ex init & att, great damage. I don't like LU but I like the great damage. If I liked lungers more (and everybody didn't run four of them on a team ) maybe this one would rank higher in my estimation.
He is a good lunger, though he should have been a PL. In my opinion, lungers need a little speed.

SL, 9-4-13-15-15-17-11, haven't seen rollup yet. Might DA if it doesn't do better than that 11 DF makes me think.
Remember that offensives don't need that much DFT. They only need it from a weapon selection stand point. The 17 Speed is good, but you need to raise his STR to 11 so you will be suited to a scimitar. This guy should do well if you get the first hit.

PL, 9-10-13-17-15-7-13, good damage. Whatcha gonna do, I guess.
This one looks good too.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:04 pm

Ok, I'm going to steal a page from Lugal above and put my commentary in blue.

* * *

Tell me what you think, as most of these were designed a long time ago. Maybe your opinions will be different than I'm guessing. I'm not telling the ones I really like and expect to do well, either. I doubt design has changed that much in ten years--so don't think this is my best. Far from it.

Some I don't like all too much but plan to run a bit anyhow:

ST, 13-10-11-15-5-13-17, good damage, planned to DA after a couple turns hoping for a couple cheap wins.

I'd DA this one. That endurance is terrible, he's rather slow for a striker, and he won't learn for crap.

ST, 11-10-6-17-8-15-17, ex rip, again hoping for some cheap wins

This one may not be bad. He has a very good skill base for a striker. If he comes back normal damage/poor endurance, he should do ok, although not great. If he gets very lucky and pulls either good damage or normal endurance, he could be very good. I agree, though, that it should have been a PR.

WS, 10(1)-9-12-15-21-5-13, +/- 18 FE, ex init, ma att, adex par. Good damage/end. Sentimental favorite

Fairly standard waste, honestly. I loathe 15 wit warriors, but this one seems to be doing ok with it, and his other stats are good enough that I'd have run him anyway. With all the FE, I'd run him to ADM and make a decision then. Be warned, wastes do NOT learn riposte, so he'll need to turn into a brick to fight ADM.

WS, 9-11-7-13-21-14-9, good damage. Maybe I just didn't know what to do with it when I made it? It's an old one.

I'd DA it. 15 wit is bad enough, 13 wit/9 DF is just begging to lose.

AB, 8-6-15-21-9-8-17, ex att. I like AB's but I've always been tired of low WL fighters.

Well, he should do ok at the lower levels. That con and endurance will hurt, though, and the lack of 21 DF really hurts his potential long-term. Still, he's worth graduating if your focus isn't entirely tournaments.

AB, 4-3-14-15-15-12-21, +/- 4 FE, ex att, good damage. I'm thinking I'll kill him before someone else does but I suspect he could end up decent, I recall he learned well.

Bah, don't kill this one. What did his attack start at? What I'd do is raise ST to 5, then probably WT to 17, then fight him to ADM, completely offensively. He's still likely to die, but any 21 DF aimer is worth checking out.

LU, 10-5-15-17-17-5-15, +/- 4 FE, ex init & att, great damage. I don't like LU but I like the great damage. If I liked lungers more (and everybody didn't run four of them on a team Wink

) maybe this one would rank higher in my estimation.

Fairly standard lunger, honestly. Again, assuming your entire focus isn't tournaments, this one's worth running to ADM.

SL, 9-4-13-15-15-17-11, haven't seen rollup yet. Might DA if it doesn't do better than that 11 DF makes me think.

I'd DA it. No good points to balance out that miserable 15/15. And Lugal, SC only requires 9 ST. It IS well-suited to the SC.

PL, 9-10-13-17-15-7-13, good damage. Whatcha gonna do, I guess.

Well, he's worth a try, I guess. If he learns well and you can nail his weapon/numbers relatively quickly, then he could do well in basic outside of tournaments.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:16 pm

I mean't an 11 for a BS. My bad.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:43 pm

I had such rotten luck with PRs that I didn't even really consider them a viable option the last year or so I was playing. That's probably why so many of my PR rollups became strikers, at least I could win with them. My decent rippers performed well once in a while, ran up a miserable record with a few staggering wins thrown in, then died. I'll have to keep my eyes open to them in the future.

Quote:

ST, 11-10-6-17-8-15-17, ex rip, again hoping for some cheap wins

This one may not be bad. He has a very good skill base for a striker. If he comes back normal damage/poor endurance, he should do ok, although not great. If he gets very lucky and pulls either good damage or normal endurance, he could be very good. I agree, though, that it should have been a PR.

Normal damage, little endurance, I think that one has 3 or 4 FE and a barely losing record. Only that slasher is a new rollup, this is one of the ten-year-olds. And I basically made that slasher because I didn't run many and I wanted to try it, and I had this mediocre replacement for an empty slot.

I don't remember the base you asked for, but I think it came on the rollup, that one may have 0 FE. (Oh wait, he's fought--now I remember the expert was on the rollup. Don't know exactly, but at least 16.)

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:49 pm

Quote:

AB, 8-6-15-21-9-8-17, ex att. I like AB's but I've always been tired of low WL fighters.
A keeper.

So would you keep a 9-13-11-21-7-6-17, poor endurance, good damage? It seems different enough to me to consider separately, but this one has more FE and has done very well.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:01 pm

I might. I would go PR or PS (I like ST's alot so I would do PS) and see if he can put together a few wins. If he lost 3 in a row , I would pour gasoline on him and lite him up.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:45 pm

saucyjack wrote:

Tell me what you think, as most of these were designed a long time ago. Maybe your opinions will be different than I'm guessing. I'm not telling the ones I really like and expect to do well, either. I doubt design has changed that much in ten years--so don't think this is my best. Far from it..

Some I don't like all too much but plan to run a bit anyhow:

ST, 13-10-11-15-5-13-17, good damage, planned to DA after a couple turns hoping for a couple cheap wins.

Ichabod's got the skinny on this one. DA now and save yourself a couple of cheap losses. It's simply not as fast (unless heavily bonused in decise) as much of what's being run. Despite the 17 DF the attack is nothing special with the level of the other attack stats. It could always get perfect match-ups for those couple of wins but you certainly shouldn't count on them for your record boost.

ST, 11-10-6-17-8-15-17, ex rip, again hoping for some cheap wins

Not bad, a couple or three more of the key skills and faster learning, too. This one could be worth keeping and definately has a chance of getting you some early wins.

WS, 10(1)-9-12-15-21-5-13, +/- 18 FE, ex init, ma att, adex par. Good damage/end. Sentimental favorite

Perfectly good waste. Far enough along that you ought to fight him out of basic. He'll have the new-age waste disease Lacka-riposta but at least he's been learning and probably tears up defensives.

WS, 9-11-7-13-21-14-9, good damage. Maybe I just didn't know what to do with it when I made it? It's an old one.

I'd say burn it or forget it. At 11-13-7-15-21-14-11 it might proceed to be an effective basic warrior. (and would even have some rip)

AB, 8-6-15-21-9-8-17, ex att. I like AB's but I've always been tired of low WL fighters.

Some like this have done very well in basic and even some of the lowest tourneys. Depends on his arena. If it's one with 65% strikers he'll get creamed for awhile. If not he should do OK.

AB, 4-3-14-15-15-12-21, +/- 4 FE, ex att, good damage. I'm thinking I'll kill him before someone else does but I suspect he could end up decent, I recall he learned well.

Make them kill this one. They quite possibly may do it. But the basic design has had success for several managers.

LU, 10-5-15-17-17-5-15, +/- 4 FE, ex init & att, great damage. I don't like LU but I like the great damage. If I liked lungers more (and everybody didn't run four of them on a team Wink

) maybe this one would rank higher in my estimation.

Not bad at all, if the 5 speed hasn't already made him hosed a couple places then this one should do well for you.

SL, 9-4-13-15-15-17-11, haven't seen rollup yet. Might DA if it doesn't do better than that 11 DF makes me think.

Ought to come ex. (+) in init., decent decise (and I think slasher is a more forgiving style for damage rating and sometimes endurance rating). Might get killed for you but if not I'd give it a try to see how it learns on the 15 wit.

PL, 9-10-13-17-15-7-13, good damage. Whatcha gonna do, I guess

Perfectly good PL design to me, you risk a bit on the "hosed" rolls with a 7 speed but nothing major. I have one that's pretty similar I've found I like better than I expected. If you ran PR's I'd say it would make a good one, but ought to be fine as is.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:55 pm

Man what do you guys run speedwise as ST's. I have a 6 SP striker in a tough arena winning 65%+. And I rarely make a ST over SP 12. I thought ST's needed the points in other areas or is this another of my MANY misguided designing flaws? Shocked

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:08 am

I like them to have enough speed that they'll have a mode of at least 10 decise, preferably 12+. If they have high wit and will, then speed can be lower.

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:07 am

Ditto what Icabod said. ST need DEC and speed gives them DEC. A low speed ST is not a ST, maybe a PS or PR.

Unchartered Poster Joined: Apr 28, 2003 Posts: 4

Gameogre, why do you say a 5 speed lunger will be hosed? or a low speed striker?

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:19 pm

Because speed is a Lungers secondary stat. It is widely rumored that having high primary/secondary stats add for the chance of bonuses, the opposite for low stats. The skills are as follows

Style primary/secondary stats

BA ST/SZ
ST SP/SP
SL SP/WL
LU WL/SP
PL DF/SP
PS SP/DF
PR WT/DF
TP WT/SP
WS ST/ST
AB DF/DF

You can only be bonused or hosed in areas where these stats have skills. That's why a Striker can't get an ATT bonus (no ATT skills in SP). WoS can only get ATT and PAR (only skills in ST). Though I must say I have a 6 INI/5 RIP WoS who got no activity statement (meaning he has at least 12 INI+RIP skills). I know there is some dispute on INI for DF but he's mode at 6 skills of INI (learned 10 for Ex and 14 for AdEx) since he's learned ZERO RIP skills in 38 fights it may take a while to figure if he's +1 RIP (He has 9 SP so the 11/13 SP for 2 RIP skills doesn't come into play, he is 5 RIP by TB and BG2). This guy would either blow up the activity,skills, or bonus-area for WS charts.

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:27 pm

The activity predictions on most sites are slightly off, so that's probably where the error is. There was a post on the round table last week about that.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:15 am

Right, as I meant in all cases.

It's Assur who set out to, and now has or at least has quickness done, confirm the low quickness/activity statements correctly. I believe he's still doing the low wit statements for some of this? Anyway, you can only confirm several of the low combinations by making the rating right now as the generators have errors down there (at the higher end, I hit some decise underestimating on BM2 and that one stray init skill terrablood says you have on 50% of warriors that never actually shows up. I still am not sure what point that is being given for, I suppose I ought to take all my guys through it and see.)

So, I'm really leery about low speeds for str, ps and slasher. Less so, but I weigh it in for choices of Lu, pl, and as a tiny consideration for offensive TP's. The PL like the one above came back hosed in parry (-1 I believe, so not a tragedy) a recent TP design with 5 speed was hosed in defense (again either 1 or 2) and I've had the painful 21 wit, 9 sp striker skill god try come back -4 on initiative. Nothing of this sort is sure to happen, and having the high skills in these areas doesn't guarantee bonuses either, but it is a consideration and some experimental designs to test the prevalence are showing a real likelihood on the bonus side so far. It certainly seems also that secondary skills must be higher than primary to give much more chance of bonus and lower than primary stats before they increase the odds causing hosing.

The guys already pointed this out, but I believe it was asked based on something I said so I'll comment. Some designs cry out for decise to be effective. Wit, will and speed are the only sources and speed has the most. A high wit and will allows a moderate speed to give that 10-12 starting decise Ichabod talked about. With low will, like many striker designs, it takes a high (12-14+) speed to reach these numbers. With perhaps 75% of offensives of all types using the decise tactic this is the only way a young (read: hasn't outlearned everybody else in decise yet) striker to be fast enough to score some cheap wins on the jump. If it happens to make your striker +3 or so in decise, all the more is the advantage felt. (had one like this, 15 speed, 12 mode decise but +3 and +2 in defense, that has been jumped exactly once in 13 arena fights and 3 tourneys, probably wouldn't have been jumped then but I was running him 9-5-7 instead of 10-10-7 because his attack is so much better that way).