game changes for real

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:25 am

guardian wrote:

Woody wrote:

Why not give double parry skills for each 22-25 stat train that gives parry...this could solve some of the problem.

why not just add 4 parry skills in adm and then 4 parry skills in primus thats how many there was supposed to be any way , the reason the y were removed in the first place was becasue they were to dominant vs the skill levels of the era and the level of the game you originally could recieve them at .

Doubling the amount in each 22-25 Stat train is what, 4 WIL & 4 DFT? That's only 8, bringing us to 69 PAR vs. 72 ATT. If you also allowed 4 for STR 22-25, that's 12 total for a 73 vs. 72. I kind of like putting them in the Stat trains as they'll be available only in ADM & Primus (though I know Guardian's solution did the same), so you don't have to worry about unbalancing Basic. Also, by putting them in high-end stats, they'll mostly only be hit by mid to late ADM & Primus, which is when Parry really starts to suffer (existing parry levels are still at least somewhat useful in low ADM/Home Guard IMO). Finally, it would allow the parry-focused warriors some control over when they pick up those extra Parry skills.

I like this change. Let's petition for this change. Let's see, so far we've got:
1. Add one additional Parry skill to each value of STR, WIL & DFT from 22-25 (alternatively, add 4-6 learnable parry skills to ADM and 4-6 to Primus). Which of these is a database vs. programming change BTW? I'm guessing the stat trains are just a DB change which is probably more likely.
2. Lower the STR requirement of all Bashing weapons (MA, WH, ML, HL, WF, MS & QS; what am I missing) by 2. Sounds like a DB rather than programming change, but I could easily be wrong.
3. Make Bashers well-suited to the BA (possibly BS but that really isn't thematically a bashing weapon IMO).
4. Fix the RU generation method so that RUs generated with a base Wit + Will < 16 are automatically re-rolled. This is probably a programming change unless RSI really does use a static RU pool. (FYI, for those who haven't been following it, this comes from the RU Pool thread).

The question is, do we want to submit each of these separately to RSI, or do we want one big petition with all of them. Separately makes it easier for people to chose which they truly support & thus gives RSI a better indication of what is really wanted.

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 am

Loopy wrote:

How about removing the "slip by the parry" and "getting into a decidedly precarious position" adjustments that were added in the late 80's to counter the perceived dominance of Scum.

If you removed these across the board, Scum would again dominate in basic. You might be able to get away with doing this in ADM/Primus but I'd be worried that it might make Parry too powerful. As it is, Defense is considered too powerful once it hits certain levels (currently only achievabble by maxxed out unarmed Aimed Blows in Primus). If Parry could reach similar levels without attacks slipping by, parry-warriors (probably TPs because WS burn too much endurance) would become the new unbeatable styles.

Advanced Master Poster Joined: Nov 05, 2002 Posts: 334

the very top lungers are just about as unhittable as the aimers , they just run out of gas faster and thier skill level diminishes faster so the aimers can hit them after 10 or so minutes at which point its all running on will check anyway .

guardian

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:58 am

So a petition is a bad idea? Why does that irk me? Everyone keeps complaining but no one really wants to do anything about it aparantly, if I'm to guage from the overwhelming response to my idea, one way or the other. Sad

Advanced Master Poster Joined: Nov 05, 2002 Posts: 334

no it s a fine idea but it has to be a consensu and simple things

discussion develops a consensus when the discussion is over you draf tthe petiton and prat people dont try to re-debate it all and just either endorse it or not if ppl say no way you go back to the discussion stage

guardian

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:54 am

guardian wrote:

the very top lungers are just about as unhittable as the aimers , they just run out of gas faster and thier skill level diminishes faster so the aimers can hit them after 10 or so minutes at which point its all running on will check anyway .

guardian

True. I didn't count Lungers because of the END burn. Just like how I said that the proposed removal of the "slipping" rule might make Primus TPs too dominate because of their low END burn while Wastes might be okay.

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:50 am

The Consortium wrote:

This is an interesting proposal. The many tweaks that managers may want or feel appropriate to "level the playing field" will make it difficult to reach a fair, agreed, true leveling. These small tweaks will take much time and effort to assure that a proper change has been made. We would not bet on something like this occuring in the near furure.

Well as a builder of things I must say the alternate is actually easier and would also improve the quality of play. If you have a circular object that you wish to roll evenly on all sides or a die and one of the sides or a spot on the wheel has a bump making it trouble some why you sand the bump. So Scimitar has taken over the game. Well instead of tweaking every other weapon tweek scimitar down. Conversly this will bring everytrhing up. It seems that would even the weapon playing feild.

My 2 cents.

Sincerely Purple Sage
p.s. by tweaking down you have less of a chance of a game breaker scenario than tweeking weapons up.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:09 am

PurpleSage wrote:

The Consortium wrote:

This is an interesting proposal. The many tweaks that managers may want or feel appropriate to "level the playing field" will make it difficult to reach a fair, agreed, true leveling. These small tweaks will take much time and effort to assure that a proper change has been made. We would not bet on something like this occuring in the near furure.

Well as a builder of things I must say the alternate is actually easier and would also improve the quality of play. If you have a circular object that you wish to roll evenly on all sides or a die and one of the sides or a spot on the wheel has a bump making it trouble some why you sand the bump. So Scimitar has taken over the game. Well instead of tweaking every other weapon tweek scimitar down. Conversly this will bring everytrhing up. It seems that would even the weapon playing feild.

My 2 cents.

Sincerely Purple Sage
p.s. by tweaking down you have less of a chance of a game breaker scenario than tweeking weapons up.

it's probably not fair to lessen the effectiveness of a weapon this late in the game. what about all those people who used fav potions to get the SC? if it were me, i'd be kinda pissed.

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:28 am

bubbaganoosh wrote:

PurpleSage wrote:

The Consortium wrote:

This is an interesting proposal. The many tweaks that managers may want or feel appropriate to "level the playing field" will make it difficult to reach a fair, agreed, true leveling. These small tweaks will take much time and effort to assure that a proper change has been made. We would not bet on something like this occuring in the near furure.

Well as a builder of things I must say the alternate is actually easier and would also improve the quality of play. If you have a circular object that you wish to roll evenly on all sides or a die and one of the sides or a spot on the wheel has a bump making it trouble some why you sand the bump. So Scimitar has taken over the game. Well instead of tweaking every other weapon tweek scimitar down. Conversly this will bring everytrhing up. It seems that would even the weapon playing feild.

My 2 cents.

Sincerely Purple Sage
p.s. by tweaking down you have less of a chance of a game breaker scenario than tweeking weapons up.

it's probably not fair to lessen the effectiveness of a weapon this late in the game. what about all those people who used fav potions to get the SC? if it were me, i'd be kinda pissed.

Is it fair is a legitimate question. People that have put a lot of time and money into developing warriors based on the current game quirks need to be taken into account. The game must improve, not offend its members. Still, that argument can only go so far - otherwise no change would be possible because it would affect the status quo. Neither option is acceptable, which I suspect is why RSI is very cautious about making changes.

And they do appear to make changes every now and then. Some they tell us about and some . . . perhaps they don't.

I, for one, would like to see the scimitar fixed. But I'm also not sure how big of a deal that would be. For me, not much of one. For others?

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:15 pm

I'm sure there would not be one agreeance with me but this is my sort of take on making changes. Seriously I think the whole game needs a revamp. Now before you all start cursing me and sacrificing me to every god you can think of let me explain. This game has been around for 20+ years and it's been played and tested. Now I like the basics of the game and how it all works (keep in mind I'm not a number cruncher which is probably why my record sucks) but like everyone is complaining about it needs some tweeking and needs some evening the odds done to it. Now in 20+ years of being tested it would seem to me like it should have crossed their minds that there is a lot of things that need "corrected" to make more sense. So I wonder why they didn't start with a new program and revamped it and called it duel3? Give everyone that is already in Duel2 and new free team to test out and run (even just for one arena). I mean every game you buy these days no mater what it is gets an upgrade or a new patch or something. This one has stayed pretty much the same. Lungers rule the basics and everything else sucks comparetively. I guess what I'm trying to say is why aren't they trying to create an improvement that they can roll out in the future while everyone is playing the current. I'd like to see it all stay the same as far as the play of the game (other than I'd like to see some new weapons and armor) but like many of you I'd like to know my PR has a chance against a lunger or my PS can make it to the top occasionally without having to have the "perfect" set up.

That's my input try not to crucify me to much. It's just a though.

Owsly

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:06 pm

Owsly wrote:

I'm sure there would not be one agreeance with me but this is my sort of take on making changes. Seriously I think the whole game needs a revamp. Now before you all start cursing me and sacrificing me to every god you can think of let me explain. This game has been around for 20+ years and it's been played and tested. Now I like the basics of the game and how it all works (keep in mind I'm not a number cruncher which is probably why my record sucks) but like everyone is complaining about it needs some tweeking and needs some evening the odds done to it. Now in 20+ years of being tested it would seem to me like it should have crossed their minds that there is a lot of things that need "corrected" to make more sense. So I wonder why they didn't start with a new program and revamped it and called it duel3? Give everyone that is already in Duel2 and new free team to test out and run (even just for one arena). I mean every game you buy these days no mater what it is gets an upgrade or a new patch or something. This one has stayed pretty much the same. Lungers rule the basics and everything else sucks comparetively. I guess what I'm trying to say is why aren't they trying to create an improvement that they can roll out in the future while everyone is playing the current. I'd like to see it all stay the same as far as the play of the game (other than I'd like to see some new weapons and armor) but like many of you I'd like to know my PR has a chance against a lunger or my PS can make it to the top occasionally without having to have the "perfect" set up.

That's my input try not to crucify me to much. It's just a though.

Owsly

Nothing at all wrong with your comments which have been discused at various times on this site. Certainly some good ideas and thoughts, but in the context of things, just not likely to happen.

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:41 pm

The Consortium wrote:

Nothing at all wrong with your comments which have been discused at various times on this site. Certainly some good ideas and thoughts, but in the context of things, just not likely to happen.

I agree with what I have read about multiple ideas and feel that we as managers need to truly consider any idea carefully and look to if we are doing it for our personal gain or for the improvement of the game itself. I am alos a firm believer that any change needs to be very minor and done in obtrusivly as possible so as not to create dsome of the dramatic affects of past modifications. Thats why when I suggest instead of adding to every weapon in the game its much more effecient to take away from the much to advantaged ones. Now the losers in this repect will whine but they are being selfish unless they do not see their is a problem.

That's why I ask again are all weapons being used or as I have been reading is it mainly Scimitar, Short Spear and Fist. Or is it a longer list thats actually usesd. I will be fighting in my first tourney coming back so I will have some ancedotal information to go on. I do know that almost no WF or GS are used?? Confused

Sincerely Purple Sage

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:25 pm

Quote:

That's why I ask again are all weapons being used or as I have been reading is it mainly Scimitar, Short Spear and Fist. Or is it a longer list thats actually usesd.

Weapons I think have a use in arena and/or tournament play:
SC/FI/HA/LO/LS/BA/EP/SS/SM/ME/LG/SH/BS/DA

Weapons I use on Bashers only:
QS/WH/MA/ML/HL

You won't see my warriors wearing: MS/WF/GA/GS

Some weapons like LS and EP are situational only but extremely powerful with the right build or right circumstance. You see them getting used a lot more at FtFs. Other weapons like the SH may be absolutely horrible main hand weapons but serve an extremely important purpose as the final back up weapon for some warriors because of their inability to break.

It all depends.

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:23 am

we use them all ................

by priority groupings (no difference arenas or tournaments.....

USED VERY OFTEN
SS, SC, BS, ME, HA, LO, DA, WH, ME

USED REGULARLY
BA, EP, SH, QS, LG

USED PRETTY OFTEN OR IN SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
GA, HL, LS, MA, ML, SM

USED LEAST OFTEN, BUT USED
WF, MS, GS

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:01 am

Interesting thread...

Like Wayne I use all the weapons and in pretty much the same proportions he states.

However I will say that I have found the GS very useful in early basic as a power WS weapon vs. scum. Used the right way it can make a difference.