Turf War VI Rule Discussion

Grandmaster Poster Joined: Jul 18, 2005 Posts: 939

Please all, please please please lets make this a discussion and not a piss and moan contest. Thanks!

So first thing I want to bring up is challenging your own teammates. I think it should not be allowed at all. It is fully under the rules for this one of course so go for it. But in the future I think it should be penalized.

Reasons: Lets say your warrior grabs the throne and is your champion. He can challenge a teammate and have his teammates challenge him and guaruntee his team +2 for the DM spot, +2 for a challenge win, +2 for the top style. So +6 x 2 for being a champion = +12 for a single win against your own teammate. And he only takes a -2. So +10 for your team for basically challenging your own teammate.

That is just one of the scenarios people can probably come up with.

Like I said, this contest, hey, do what you want as it is not in the rules. Next time, I say foul! -10 points if you challenge one of your teammates. What does everyone think?

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:30 pm

I'll agree to that. Next TW it should be taken care of. I didn't notice the scenario of that, I just thought it normal not to challenge ones own teamates.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:38 pm

I don't think the +2 for top style is doubled, so it's just +10.

Your method was one of the plans that X-Syndicate had talked about for Tarantella last turn. By challenging a warrior with a smaller multipler, you could keep climbing in points, but fortunately, we didn't need to do it.

It should definitely not be in the rules, or just not counted/ignored by the scorer.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:27 am

TripwireDuel wrote:

Please all, please please please lets make this a discussion and not a piss and moan contest. Thanks!

So first thing I want to bring up is challenging your own teammates. I think it should not be allowed at all. It is fully under the rules for this one of course so go for it. But in the future I think it should be penalized.

Reasons: Lets say your warrior grabs the throne and is your champion. He can challenge a teammate and have his teammates challenge him and guaruntee his team +2 for the DM spot, +2 for a challenge win, +2 for the top style. So +6 x 2 for being a champion = +12 for a single win against your own teammate. And he only takes a -2. So +10 for your team for basically challenging your own teammate.

That is just one of the scenarios people can probably come up with.

Like I said, this contest, hey, do what you want as it is not in the rules. Next time, I say foul! -10 points if you challenge one of your teammates. What does everyone think?

You may have a point there, but the scoring is all wrong. The only point advantage of this would be at the DM or stylemaster level where the +2 for DM or stylemaster (+2 ONLY) can be retained.

It appears to have happened this turn, where Soultaker challenged Crip for DM (which is well within the rules) and SCOMSS retained the DM crown, BUT, Crip (Don King) lost his stylemaster. Net impact to SCOMSS was zippo.

We are pretty ambivalent about this as it seems to have no real advantage - HOWEVER, if challenging ones teammates is a negative, so should avoiding ones teammates. SPYMASTER points are awarded for the mention.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:30 am

Let me clarify something....if your Champ is mentioned in the stylemaster...it's not doubled. Only the fight point is doubled. Not as DM or anything else and not if mentioned in the Spy Report....only fight points count for the advantage.

Trip...I'm pretty much where Blackstorm was. I really didn't think a team would challenge it's cohort...didn't seem like anyone would do that. However, it's something to consider and before it's finalized, I'd have to hear more from the gang of managers here.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:20 am

When dealing with a contest, you can't take anything for granted. I agree that challenging a teammate should be a no-no and get you negative points as Tripwire suggests. However, I also agree with Consortium who suggests if that is instituted next TW there should also be a negative impact for avoiding your teammates as well.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:22 am

MD...wanna post this on the thread Tripwire started so that I have a reminder when revamping the rules for TW VI? I think some others might agree with you and the Scribe.

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:19 pm

On the whole, challenging your team mate thing:

It is possible to net a possitive score if a champion is involved (unless I'm miss-reading the scoring system):

In all cases, we're assuming the challenge is set up so that the Champion actually wins.

Loser's score:
* Loss = -2
* Death = -5

Champion's score:
* Win = +2 * 2 = 4
* Kill = +5 * 2 = 10

So, the team stands to gain +2 or +5 points depending on if it's a kill. Now, if the Champion multiplier applies to both warriors even if only one is a Champ, then the points do come out a wash.

However, even if the points are a wash, challenging a team mate to get him to kill a warrior you would have DAed anyway means you avoid the -5 DA loss penalty for your team. So there is at least one other case (besides retaining the DM throne) where challenging a team mate is a benefit.

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:54 pm

Drake wrote:

On the whole, challenging your team mate thing:

It is possible to net a possitive score if a champion is involved (unless I'm miss-reading the scoring system):

In all cases, we're assuming the challenge is set up so that the Champion actually wins.

Loser's score:
* Loss = -2
* Death = -5

Champion's score:
* Win = +2 * 2 = 4
* Kill = +5 * 2 = 10

So, the team stands to gain +2 or +5 points depending on if it's a kill. Now, if the Champion multiplier applies to both warriors even if only one is a Champ, then the points do come out a wash.

However, even if the points are a wash, challenging a team mate to get him to kill a warrior you would have DAed anyway means you avoid the -5 DA loss penalty for your team. So there is at least one other case (besides retaining the DM throne) where challenging a team mate is a benefit.

Good points. Next time ......................
Interestingly, in all the previous events, there was no known issues of this.

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Drake wrote:

On the whole, challenging your team mate thing:

It is possible to net a possitive score if a champion is involved (unless I'm miss-reading the scoring system):

In all cases, we're assuming the challenge is set up so that the Champion actually wins.

Loser's score:
* Loss = -2
* Death = -5

Champion's score:
* Win = +2 * 2 = 4
* Kill = +5 * 2 = 10

So, the team stands to gain +2 or +5 points depending on if it's a kill. Now, if the Champion multiplier applies to both warriors even if only one is a Champ, then the points do come out a wash.

However, even if the points are a wash, challenging a team mate to get him to kill a warrior you would have DAed anyway means you avoid the -5 DA loss penalty for your team. So there is at least one other case (besides retaining the DM throne) where challenging a team mate is a benefit.

Good points. Next time ......................
Interestingly, in all the previous events, there were no known issues of this.

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:07 pm

Consortium....don't know who will host the next TW...you or me, but I agree that challenging your own team-mate and avoiding your own team-mate should be a negative modifier. That sounds like something I wished I'd thought of for this one! But, as MD said, shouldn't take anything for granted in a contest!

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:47 pm

I will say this as I said in the last contest: WE HAD ACCESS TO THE RULES BEFORE WE DECIDED TO JOIN THE TW5, so no point whining and trying to change things mid-contest.

Kudos to Tripwire for taking the right path and making note of the same in his post.

Kudos to SCOMSS for finding the existing loophole.

I would also like to say: I admire any and all people who find loopholes in existing rule sets. It shows creativity.

Grandmaster Poster Joined: Jul 18, 2005 Posts: 939

No one is whining or trying to change any rules for the current contest that I know of. This was a discussion about the next Turf War.

Master Poster Joined: Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 257

I'm still trying to figure out the scoring.

Bob is Team A's Champ

Jim is Team B's normal warrior.

Jim challenges Bob and Bob wins.

So:

Team A's Score: +2 (Challenge win) x2 (champ) = +4
Team B's Score: -2 (Challenge loss) = -2

(This is how I understand the rules to read and how things have been talked about in the forum.)

or

Team A's Score: +2 (challenge win) x2 (champ) = +4
Team B's Score: - 2 (challenge loss) x2 (fought Team A's champ) = -4

Does anyone know when Champs start to get the x2 bonus. On the turn of declartion or on the turn that everyone know that they are a champ?

Don King declared as the Royal Flushes champ this turn so is he x2 for this turn or next turn?

thanks,

slugbait

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:54 pm

Quote:

Does anyone know when Champs start to get the x2 bonus. On the turn of declartion or on the turn that everyone know that they are a champ?

It's the turn you declare--so use that strategically.

Quote:

Don King declared as the Royal Flushes champ this turn so is he x2 for this turn or next turn?

Neither, because he's ranked too highly to be a Champ. (Baphomet explained in another thread below. and it will probably in the NL next turn.)