Hello

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2002 6:40 am

Hello everyone.
Thought Id stop by and check out the state of DuelMasters. Its been about 12 years since I last played and I thought I might give it another shot. Im sure one or two things have changed in the last 12 years.

Unchartered Poster Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 3

Welcome DeathJester. Yes, there have been a few changes in 12 years but the core of the game is still the same. I hope you activate a team and meet us all on the sands. This site is still in beta testing so if you find errors please let us know!

Jiles / LHI / Admin

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:23 am

Thank you for the welcome

I sent the application off several days ago so ive got my eye on the mail box for that tail tell green and white envelope. (assuming of course its still green and white lol)

Unchartered Poster Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 3

I think they actually cycle through different colors now. They use purple alot.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Death Jester (play 40k much?), send me a PM. I just came back after an 11 year break, and have a good idea of exactly what has changed since you retired.

It sure beats trying to figure it out yourself or getting blindsided by the changes (such as the much weaker lunge crits).

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:12 am

Weaker lunge crits?!? Now you tell me.

Must be some more changes as well. I noticed a comparative dearth of defensive warriors in many arenas. More aimed blows that are more successful too. More emphasis on the parry-lunge as a swing fighter (used to be considered defensive) and other things that lead me to think some things have changed.

Kind of makes me want to try for a new movement with defenders just for the name calling and consternation. But my first groups already in. TP, lunger, slasher and two AB.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Well, lunger has pretty much been determined to be the god-style, because they have the highest skill base of all the styles. 25-25-x-25-25-25-25 lungers don´t really have endurance problems any longer, so it all comes down to skill base (determined by style), bonuses, and damage. Aimed Blows are the other power style, because they have good skill bases and get amazing bonuses when fighting open-handed.

Yes, lunge crits were weakened in late 90 or early 91 - instead of knocking you down about half the time, they seem to do it 10-15% now, and it´s far easier to get back up. Even the parry penalty seems smaller. That led to the rise of the scimitar as possibly the top weapon, thanks to its massive crit damage multiplier.

Any more, styles seem to be rated based on Gateway performance - the mailing list had a long discussion about how badly PR´s suck, despite the fact that they are very very good until they´re Primus-inducted. Some managers go as far as saying "Every good PR would have been a better something else". The arenas now are pretty much 40% lungers, some strikers and slashers, a few TP´s and wastes, and not much else. There are SO many bloody lungers, though, that the styles that don´t do well against them tend to just get thrashed consistantly.

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 3:03 pm

Some of that information you just posted is completely untrue, Kage.

1. I doubt that 40% of basic warriors are lungers. There are just as many TPs and strikers as lungers, if not more of each style.

2. Lungers are not the dominant style in the game. Lungers are the dominant style in Gateway and Primus, but the game is pretty balanced rookies-eligibles. Strikers dominate rookies-adepts, lungers/slashers usually take champs, and freshmen-eligibles is a crapshoot. The past 3 Eligibles tourneys have been won by a PS, WS, and TP; runners-up in those three tourneys were TP, TP, LU, and third was PR, LU, and ???.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

My bad, going through the newsletters, in most of the arenas I checked, the number of lungers was more like 20-25%, followed by strikers at about 15%, then TP´s at 10%. There were some anomolies, though, such as Malcorn, where 1 lunger fought out of 15 active warriors.

And when I refer to the game, I refer to the game as a whole, not merely tournaments. You, unfortunately, have apparently joined many of the players as only counting tournaments as the game - that´s apparent by your using only tournament performances to dispute me. Let´s not forget the arenas where these warriors fight, and where the majority of our money dumped into this game is actually spent.

Yes, ADM and Elegibles has been a crapshoot for the TC itself, but it sure seems there are far, far more lungers in the TV´s in those tournaments than any other style. Primus/Gateway? Same deal. Champs? Again, a lunger may not TC every time, but the TV´s are dominated by them. Even Adepts has a fair amount of them, despite their still being weak against strikers that early.

Then let´s look at the ADM areas you totally ignored in favor of your tournament status - check the number of lungers vs the number of any other style. Gross imbalance doesn´t even begin to describe it - just to grab one arena at random, Freeblades had 24 lungers fight last turn, 14 slashers, and no other style had more than 9. You can say that arena is dominated by lungers simply due to the fact that they´re breeding like cockroaches - they can be accused of dominating through sheer numbers, just as TP´s can be accused of dominating through W/L there. Dominance can be read in multiple ways, after all.

Then we get to the fact approximately 60% of the rollups sent to the Round Table for discussion are massively recommended as lungers (with a few exceptions, such as one player always suggesting Basher). My point is that lunger is considered the dominant style of the game - I never said it dominated every single tournament, since I consider the game larger than just the 4 tournaments a year. It´s far and away the most common, it´s the most highly skilled, and even you admit it totally dominates the top end, save for some heavily modified freaks at the very top.

Of course, you could write all that off, since it isn´t about tournaments, but for us returning managers, the game is still about the arena, not the Tournament Champion.

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:17 pm

Yes, all the tourney talk is interesting and I appreciate the insight. Also, the look into ADM and higher afforded by the forums but my first team in 12 years is about to fight it´s first fights and the regular arenas have a lot more impact on them for the next several months.

I, too, noticed some lunger heavy arenas and a lot with strikers number two. Lungers have always been popular of course but defensive warriors certainly weren´t as rare as what I´ve seen. I suppose WOS are more numerous actually or at least a few teams with several exist. Of course, I remember arguments from way back then that any defensive warrior that actually fought (not the slimes) would have made a better something else.

By the old standards, I remember that lungers and slashers got a big majority of the kills too. (Once fought a 4-0-3 slasher and made him 5-0-4) That appeals to certain types of players as much as a versatile stable with somebody set up to beat anybody does to others of us.

Falling into the trap of talking about other levels of play. Is that tournament prizes that has you talking about 25-25-x-25 etc. warriors?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:13 am

Im back to stalking my mail box waiting for my first turn back...Im fielding a team of 1 Lunger, 1 Striker, 1 Slasher, 1 Basher and a DA (ok he is a WOS but will be wandering around the DA the first turn).

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Jul 11, 2002 Posts: 165

Nah, the all-25 warriors are simply a result of time and (for the vast majority) the easier skill learns in Gateway. Some, like Dee-Dee, actually maxxed stats in Primus, however.

Anymore, it seems everyone agrees that you´re not TV´ing gateway unless you´ve learned 25 skills in every area and have pushed all trainable stats to 25 (although some may have TV´d with a few con to go). You´ll also need +4 attack and +4 defense to have any realistic hope, as well, on top of being a highly skilled style. For the most part, that seems, any more, to be Aimed Blows, Lungers, and some slashers are putting in impressive performances.

And yes, I´m totally aware of nutjobs like Teetotaller still clinging to the top of Gateway, but it´s hard to lose your spot when you go out the Gate every turn.

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:15 pm

Whoa, so that´s why initial skills are the determining factor. All the burned skills are recoverable in Gateway I read and if many/most raise to 25s the difference becomes initial skills, style (since offense eventually overwhelms parry and lungers have the best amount of defense per stat point as well as attack that explains the preference) weapon of preference and perhaps being able to use certain tactics to full effect. Oh yes, large size differences might still matter.

At these levels does going first still matter? Or does the 25 cons and dodge abilities overwhelm that consideration?

Chomping at the bit yet Jester? Me too, and my arena doesn´t play until the 3rd. My worst wont go DA until adept or so. I´m hoping to put on a show. Size 14 and con 21. Of course it depends who he gets. Some seem beyond the best regular arena fighter to extend and mine certainly wont be that.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2002 10:53 pm

I just caught the fact that they started me in an arena scheduled to close. Since I can move anytime and to any arena is there any consensus on the best arena to transfer to? Where would you go if you had your pick of any arena?

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:28 am

I think all the arena closings have already been done. But if you want a good competitive arena ´d suggest either Talcama (1

or Sunset (21)