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pipthetroll
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Elephant wrote:
People letís be reasonable here. It was a honest mistake by RSI and 4 warriors were affected. Of the 4, one was a teammate of the team in question. What's Pip, Rillion, Street and Soultaker's feelings here? You four were the ones that were affected.


Would I like points? Sure. Would I like the others to recieve points? Hell no. Do I deserve points? Likely not, I was soundly beated by a non-togs warrior. Would it be fair to the other teams if these 4 were given points? No, there's no guarantee that these warriors would have won figthing someone else.

Its not just these 4 effected, everyone was effected, and equally--it could have been you who matched up on my easily beatable pud. Luck of the draw and all.

While technically the dynamics of the matchups changed, theres no way to predict what would have happened had the second team not run. Sure maybe I would have matched on someone I could beat, but I could have also matched up with another togs warrior who killed me. Shit happens. Its unpredictable. Everyone had the same chances of winning/losing, fighting in/out of the togs warriors pool.
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_sandman_
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I wasn't planning to say anything about this for obvious reasons. But the fact is this is BS. All of you people need to get your panties out of your rear-ends. It was unintentional. How can you go on and on about this?

Is this worse than Manager organizing large factions of managers to hunt the front-runners? Is this worse than managers bringing friends in to 60 to challenge in to the TOGS late in the game for the sake of attempting to preserve their leads?

Take a look at those examples. If you can't distinguish deliberate, harmful acts that violate and fly in the face of the spirit of the contest from an unintentional act, then you've got bigger problems than what has happened in this TOGS.

Live with what the Commish decides and get over it. I'm personally insulted that anyone would insinuate that the FONZ would do ANYTHING to favor one member over the general DM public. If you don't like it, find another contest and don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
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Hammer_Minister_of_War
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

_sandman_ wrote:
Hammer_Minister_of_War wrote:
YES the Ingtegrity of the contest is COMPROMISED in My Opinion Because the Random Match Ups would have Shaken Out Differently with the Absence of this 2nd team!



Respectfully,

Hammer


The integrity of the contest is compromised? Because of a mistake? Hmmm...then how would you characterize the challenging of one PR run by a Free Blades manager by another PR run by another Free Blades manager on the last turn of the contest in 66? Doesn't that fly in the face of the spirit of that contest? Hmm? Hello, pot, the kettle is calling!


There was a Separate Prize Category for Styles!

Free Blades were out of the running and there was always the Style Prize up for grabs!

Since it was a Free Blader may the Best Ripper win!

Ironically No Prize was Issued and at this point I could care less!

So Sayeth the Pot to the Kettle! Smile

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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
I think you're too smart to do something intentional like this. I have a few concerns:

- Not intentional does not mean non-negligent. If your email to Sandy was a short "Can you put my team on maintenance?" then of course there is a high chance that she would screw up that request. (But that's easily investigated)
- If you get with no penalty at all--that might encourage others to do shenanigans in the future---with the idea that as long as you can pin it on RSI, then nothing will happen to you.
- Next TOGS, there needs to be a non-FONZ co-commmish, since (to me), it's pretty clear where the lines have been drawn. (That this is potentially a big deal vs. not a big deal--I think we're all in agreement now that Travis did nothing intentional)

Quote:
Because if so, then I'm concerned about that. If not, then this Manageresque hysteria hyping isn't helping anything and is potentially influencing future participants over, basically, nothing.


Having an open an honest discussion and willing to listen to all concerns can only help participation in the future (even if we can't resolve every issue), if this is swept under the rug and someone feels screwed over this and lets it bubble--that will affect future participation.


Manager and The Consortium don't always agree on things - especially when we partner Wink - but we have to say this pretty well sums it up for us.

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Darque
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hmm. I feel partly responsible for all of this since it was I who pointed out the extra team to my partner Pip when I sarcastically said, "I'm no rules lawyer, but what's up with the extra Death Studs team?"

The truth is that I am a rules lawyer (both a curse and a blessing at times) and I have been thinking about all of this most of the day. I re-read the rules and while the prohibitions are laid out plainly, there are no consequences listed for any of them. As such, it falls into the hands of the contest moderator to determine the appropriate course of action. I do not pity Nuln's position at times like this for sure.

With all of that being said, I will go on record and say that nothing that has transpired thus far has put a bad taste in my mouth for this contest, nor has it caused the integrity of the TOGS or Travis to lower in my mind. Others may feel differently and that is their perogative to do so.

I'm not going to pretend to have an easy fix for the situation. I do think that if the extra team had gone 0-5, there would not be any ruckus or as many forum posts as we have seen. However, they did not and thus the chaos before us. I think giving 4 points to the offended parties is an option, but then you begin to play the role of seer and are implying said warriors would have won if matched with a different opponent. The reverse could also be argued and perhaps they would have lost or even died fighting someone else.

0 points would be the most appropriate in my book, and I'm on one of the affected teams. My partner may have a different take on the situation, but that is my feeling on the matter. DQ just takes it entirely too far, espeically since most of us are sure it was just a mix up by RSI. If they just simply penalize the offender with a 0 point gain for his (offender only, not his partner) team on the first turn, I consider that an acceptable action too since it does not reward anyone for losing a fight and penalizes the one who committed the infraction.

Just opinions from one who is currently running a contest. I will abide by whatever decision is made and move forward with the TOGS. I will state again this has not and will not adversely affect my opinion of TOGS or of Travis, or anyone who decides to disagree with me on the topic at hand.

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Managerr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Is this worse than Manager organizing large factions of managers to hunt the front-runners?


About the same as certain FONZ members agreeing to collude and not challenge each other.

Quote:

Is this worse than managers bringing friends in to 60 to challenge in to the TOGS late in the game for the sake of attempting to preserve their leads?


While not illegal, this goes against my personal competitive nature and I have NEVER done this. The three highest profile incidents of these cases were Rascally Rabbit, Lady Lerch and Ganolus's wife.
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pipthetroll
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
While not illegal, this goes against my personal competitive nature and I have NEVER done this. The three highest profile incidents of these cases were Rascally Rabbit, Lady Lerch and Ganolus's wife.


You failed to list the dark one.
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:

You failed to list the dark one.


He wasn't actually there to help his fellow BOBis was he? I always got the impression he was just playing and challenging whoever got in his way. (Like Crip did last TOGS)
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pipthetroll
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
Quote:

You failed to list the dark one.


He wasn't actually there to help his fellow BOBis was he? I always got the impression he was just playing and challenging whoever got in his way. (Like Crip did last TOGS)


I know he repeatedly tv challenged into the contest, if not every turn vs a togs warrior, then very close to it. Didn't tv challenge any Bob members....draw your own conclusions, I did.
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Elephant
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hammer_Minister_of_War wrote:
Apparently my wording has skewed my meaning!

The taste of taint in my mouth refers to leaving a bad taste in my mouth over this whole issue!

Where you get the idea that I am going to waste my time and energy for 12 turns belly aching about this is beyond me!

We were encouraged to speak up and I did so!

I got the idea from your past posts/reactions. If you say your not gonna go on and on, great. If you continue to overreact and question the integrity on this, then I'm gonna call you out. It's your choice either way.

As far as TOGS goes, I don't care how this is resolved. 0 points or 4 points to affected warriors works for me. Let's get back to the spirit of TOGS and start talking about things that matter like Nuln's Nutsack. Laughing
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JGW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Elephant wrote:
As far as TOGS goes, I don't care how this is resolved. 0 points or 4 points to affected warriors works for me. Let's get back to the spirit of TOGS and start talking about things that matter like Nuln's Nutsack. Laughing


I thought this TOGS was about Indimar's Woody. Embarassed

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_Indimar_
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JGW wrote:
Elephant wrote:
As far as TOGS goes, I don't care how this is resolved. 0 points or 4 points to affected warriors works for me. Let's get back to the spirit of TOGS and start talking about things that matter like Nuln's Nutsack. Laughing


I thought this TOGS was about Indimar's Woody. Embarassed


C'mon now. We can't have my woody hanging over TOGS....everyone would be in the shade. Laughing

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JGW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

_Indimar_ wrote:
JGW wrote:
Elephant wrote:
As far as TOGS goes, I don't care how this is resolved. 0 points or 4 points to affected warriors works for me. Let's get back to the spirit of TOGS and start talking about things that matter like Nuln's Nutsack. Laughing


I thought this TOGS was about Indimar's Woody. Embarassed


C'mon now. We can't have my woody hanging over TOGS....everyone would be in the shade. Laughing


There are too many ways to continue this, and none are suitable for forum use. Lets leave the size jokes aside, or the fact other things are causing the shade. Twisted Evil

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_Indimar_
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JGW wrote:
_Indimar_ wrote:
JGW wrote:
Elephant wrote:
As far as TOGS goes, I don't care how this is resolved. 0 points or 4 points to affected warriors works for me. Let's get back to the spirit of TOGS and start talking about things that matter like Nuln's Nutsack. Laughing


I thought this TOGS was about Indimar's Woody. Embarassed


C'mon now. We can't have my woody hanging over TOGS....everyone would be in the shade. Laughing


There are too many ways to continue this, and none are suitable for forum use. Lets leave the size jokes aside, or the fact other things are causing the shade. Twisted Evil


We now return you to your regularly scheduled blaboring of the issue. Rolling Eyes

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Elephant
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Managerr wrote:
While not illegal, this goes against my personal competitive nature and I have NEVER done this. The three highest profile incidents of these cases were Rascally Rabbit, Lady Lerch and Ganolus's wife.
Do you have specifics involving Ganolus' wife? Correct me if I'm wrong but she ran a nonTOGS team last year and didn't challenge TOGS warriors. Mannequin killed of one her warriors(imagine that) in a random matchup. She bloodfueded. Is that what you are referring to? If so, that's not interference, that's revenging the death of a fallen warrior. Outside of that bloodfued, I'm 99% sure she didn't issue any challenges towards TOGS teams. I don't think it's fair to include her in your list.
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