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Managerr
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Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 4073
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Do you have specifics involving Ganolus' wife? Correct me if I'm wrong but she ran a nonTOGS team last year and didn't challenge TOGS warriors. Mannequin killed of one her warriors(imagine that) in a random matchup. She bloodfueded. Is that what you are referring to? If so, that's not interference, that's revenging the death of a fallen warrior. Outside of that bloodfued, I'm 99% sure she didn't issue any challenges towards TOGS teams. I don't think it's fair to include her in your list.


I am referring to the Bloodfeud. My list wasn't meant to be a "these people are bad" list, just trying to remember the people that were causing controversy. I fully admit that I was one of the handful of people at the FtF who were begging Debbie to bloodfeud all 4 times at the last Tempe FtF!

I waited until I got home from work, but I wanted to reply to this:

Quote:
Take a look at those examples. If you can't distinguish deliberate, harmful acts that violate and fly in the face of the spirit of the contest from an unintentional act, then you've got bigger problems than what has happened in this TOGS.


The difference is that one of these is a direct rules violation, the other isn't. How do you punish someone who violates the spirit of the contest? You can only do it within the competition itself. You can however, do something about someone who violates the rules because it's a concrete thing. At this point I don't think anyone is calling for Death Stud's head--we realize it was unintentional.
Quote:

Live with what the Commish decides and get over it. I'm personally insulted that anyone would insinuate that the FONZ would do ANYTHING to favor one member over the general DM public. If you don't like it, find another contest and don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.


I believe we all said that we will have to live with what thee commish decides. I'll be blunt and say that I don't know most of you well enough to trust you. I think it's totally normal to be biased, not necessarily in favor of any one player-but also in your interpretation of what you think the most important values of the contest are. (For example, there's a definite difference of interpretation of what we believe that the spirit of the contest is)

And I like this think that this is contest belongs to more than just the FONZ anyway. Because even though the FONZ hosts it, there were many non-FONZites who spent many hours of their lives writing spotlights every turn and recruiting, and growing the contest to the prestigious levels it is today. (And those that didn't can argue that they paid to play)
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Rillion
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Joined: Jul 17, 2002
Posts: 1054

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

pipthetroll wrote:
I know he repeatedly tv challenged into the contest, if not every turn vs a togs warrior, then very close to it. Didn't tv challenge any Bob members....draw your own conclusions, I did.


Which TOGS was this? I don't remember him ever being around when TGG and I were in a competitive TOGS. He never once talked with us about his team running or making challenges.
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SwineTiger
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I stopped reading this thread after page two when somebody suggested starting TOGS over for some reason. I don't recall what that reason was and didn't really follow anything after or before that, but based solely on my record, I support it.

SwineTiger


Last edited by SwineTiger on Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pipthetroll
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Rillion wrote:
pipthetroll wrote:
I know he repeatedly tv challenged into the contest, if not every turn vs a togs warrior, then very close to it. Didn't tv challenge any Bob members....draw your own conclusions, I did.


Which TOGS was this? I don't remember him ever being around when TGG and I were in a competitive TOGS. He never once talked with us about his team running or making challenges.


TOGS IV. Newcastle of beerbarians. No one knew who ran the warrior until he graduated a few turns after the togs and was listed under recent graduates.
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Rillion
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That would be the TOGS where the only BotB entry was TGG and myself and we were not competitive, we even stopped submitting spotlights before the contest was over. So if as you are implying that he was here to interfere in TOGS and help someone, it certainly wasn't his allies.
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Haunt
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Joined: Oct 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm down in the basement after turn 1 and this didn't really affect me at all but here's my take...

It seems that most if not all agree that this was not done intentionally. To me the key item is the email he sent to RSI. I don't think it would be hard to confirm the wording of the email with RSI. If the email was vague then 0 points for the offending team this turn is not too much of a penalty I think. I'm kind of 50/50 whether is should just be the offending manager or his entire team but if the email is negligent there definitely should be a penalty. Disqualification seems overly harsh over an honest mistake even if a bit negligent and it's not fair to all the teams that did well to start over.

If the email was very clear which team was supposed to be on maintenance the move I would support is no penalty to the offender but also to give non-TOGS opponent points each to each warrior who randomly matched up against his team win or lose (Except his own of course). I realize this isn't ideal either, and could raise future questions if someone else tries to do something similar intentionally but I find it hard to punish someone for a mistake that was not his own.

Ultimately I'm not gonna leave the contest in an outrage no matter what is decided but there's my 2 cents on the matter.

P.S. While I'm not looking to reopen any old wounds I do find all the past controversy stuff that gets referred to an interesting read. Especially since I was never in a major alliance and missed out on a lot of the internal stuff that goes on. Now I'm gonna have to go dig through the old Yahoo group.
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Soultaker69
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It seems that no matter what happens there is going to be a taint left behind. There are a few that have made it clear that there is an integrity issue involved. The FONZ has always went out of their way to run a great and fair contest. With this cloud hanging from the first turn, and the pressure placed on Paul, I have decided to withdraw from TOGS.

I would love to say that I am taking a bullet for the betterment of the contest, which did play heavy in my decision, mostly I am not going to be punished for something I did not do wrong. Because of a RSI error in TOGS III I did not get points for a story I had written and I accepted that, I lost 6 awards from arena 66 because of an RSI error and did not complain, so when my intergrity is questioned, and that of every FONZ member, over a wrong team being put on maintenance it is time for me to step away.
The intent of the rule was to keep people from using a second team to challenge into the contest. What happened was 4 random fights occurred. No intent to cheat, it was just an honest mistake.
I am sure there are plenty of contestants that think this is BS and what to just move on, but a few have felt, which is their right, that what happened is a serious infraction.
Some of you know that this is the one part of the game I live for. I miss the old newsletters with personals and stories. No matter what the outcome might have been a select few would have picked at this till it festered. Much easier to not let it get to me.

Best of luck to all of you. I hope that this is a great TOGS experience for everyone.

Craig

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Soultaker
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Just a player that hasn't quit the game and come back. Maybe that is why I don't have all the answers to the problems in the game.
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_Indimar_
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Soultaker69 wrote:
It seems that no matter what happens there is going to be a taint left behind. There are a few that have made it clear that there is an integrity issue involved. The FONZ has always went out of their way to run a great and fair contest. With this cloud hanging from the first turn, and the pressure placed on Paul, I have decided to withdraw from TOGS.

I would love to say that I am taking a bullet for the betterment of the contest, which did play heavy in my decision, mostly I am not going to be punished for something I did not do wrong. Because of a RSI error in TOGS III I did not get points for a story I had written and I accepted that, I lost 6 awards from arena 66 because of an RSI error and did not complain, so when my intergrity is questioned, and that of every FONZ member, over a wrong team being put on maintenance it is time for me to step away.
The intent of the rule was to keep people from using a second team to challenge into the contest. What happened was 4 random fights occurred. No intent to cheat, it was just an honest mistake.
I am sure there are plenty of contestants that think this is BS and what to just move on, but a few have felt, which is their right, that what happened is a serious infraction.
Some of you know that this is the one part of the game I live for. I miss the old newsletters with personals and stories. No matter what the outcome might have been a select few would have picked at this till it festered. Much easier to not let it get to me.

Best of luck to all of you. I hope that this is a great TOGS experience for everyone.

Craig


Don't do it!!!!!!!!

It's not the fact that an accident happened that will ruin future participation, it's this crap. It's a frickin' game people. Lighten up, get over it , put on your big boy pants and get on with TOGS. This should be nothing more than good spotlight material.
Hey molehill, how'd you like to be a mountain?

Soulie, don't let the snivelers get to you.

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_Indimar_
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Roughly 1,000 fights over the course of TOGS and all this drama over 3 "tainted" fights? Shocked

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SwineTiger
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

[quote=]There are a few that have made it clear that there is an integrity issue involved. [/quote]

Given that this is a game and most of the players are adults (well, over 30, the term adults might be pushing it), I find it difficult to believe there is any slight of hand involved. So if whatever happened plays a part in the FINAL score of TOGS, deal with it then. It's bad enough to have diapers to change in the real world, let alone here. Move on people!

SwineTiger
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pipthetroll
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Soultaker69 wrote:
Best of luck to all of you. I hope that this is a great TOGS experience for everyone.

Craig


Don't do it. Think of all the good spotlights you could write about taints.

I seriously doubt anyone has questions about the integrity of the FONZ or the contest. It's quite obviously an RSI error, and the second team rule is in place to prevent challenging into the contest, which did not happen.

We have all been shafted by RSI errors before, lets not let this one shaft every one of us by losing your participation and demeaning the contest.

I think most if not all of us think this is BS, and giving you guys a hard time about it got a bit outa hand(this is togs after all).
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Anti
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah don't do it Craig, it's nice that your willing to throw yourself on your sword and all but this whole thing has been blown waaaaaaay out of proportion.

Give it a turn or two and it will just be another source of joke material, not a scandal ala Kathy.

Besides, you know some were hoping you'd quit since your a two time togs winnah. =)

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drdaddy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A second what I my partner Haunt has said and also encourage Craig to stay in the contest. Some of the reactions posted here seem WAY too harsh and overblown. TOGS is supposed to be a fun, spirited contest not a moral dilemma or a character assassination. Just get to the bottom of the email, make a measured response/penalty and lets get back to slamming each other on the sand.


General Ironcide the almost last place TOGS newbie. Smile
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Soultaker69 wrote:
It seems that no matter what happens there is going to be a taint left behind. There are a few that have made it clear that there is an integrity issue involved. The FONZ has always went out of their way to run a great and fair contest. With this cloud hanging from the first turn, and the pressure placed on Paul, I have decided to withdraw from TOGS.

I would love to say that I am taking a bullet for the betterment of the contest, which did play heavy in my decision, mostly I am not going to be punished for something I did not do wrong. Because of a RSI error in TOGS III I did not get points for a story I had written and I accepted that, I lost 6 awards from arena 66 because of an RSI error and did not complain, so when my intergrity is questioned, and that of every FONZ member, over a wrong team being put on maintenance it is time for me to step away.
The intent of the rule was to keep people from using a second team to challenge into the contest. What happened was 4 random fights occurred. No intent to cheat, it was just an honest mistake.
I am sure there are plenty of contestants that think this is BS and what to just move on, but a few have felt, which is their right, that what happened is a serious infraction.
Some of you know that this is the one part of the game I live for. I miss the old newsletters with personals and stories. No matter what the outcome might have been a select few would have picked at this till it festered. Much easier to not let it get to me.

Best of luck to all of you. I hope that this is a great TOGS experience for everyone.

Craig


Nope! Your resignation is not accepted. You have to play. Quitting is simply wrong. It does no one any good. So ALL OF US are refusing to accept these words.


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Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1004 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 107K+ fights and 70K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1533*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1474; Lenpros DM30 @ 1435; Fandils @ 1340
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First, for the integrity of TOGS Craig and Travis cannot quit.

Secondly, we must accept the fact that Nuln, as Cimmish (and a dang good one) will make the decision on what, if any, penalty will be applied. He should not accept any pressure from any of these comments, because he has great integrity, and because the rest of us have the integrity to accept what he decides and move on.

Thirdly, eveyone has a right to his/her own opinion and has a right to express it.

Fourthly, terminology has been used that may be misleading, and we have probably been guilty - so - let us clarify
(a) punishment (a harsh and somewhat incorrect word) should have been penalty
(b) serious issue (a harsh and somewhat incorrect word) should have been infraction

Fifth, The Elequent/Stud team has to complete, because quite a few of us intend to "whip their hineys".

Sixth, this is a game and fun, so let's get over it and on with it, and laugh about it

Seventh, we Consortiumites are going to do all we can to assure that the above happens/occurs.

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Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1004 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 107K+ fights and 70K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1533*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1474; Lenpros DM30 @ 1435; Fandils @ 1340
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