the state of the game

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Dec 21, 2003 Posts: 130

I just want to say this, FtFs ARE NOT the root of duelmasters, they are the icing on the cake. Basic is the root of Dm, it is the bond that keeps this game going. Without basic it would only be a matter of time before there is no DM.

As far as PAs. In most arenas, people have nothing to say... All that is said, is said on forums like this one or the round table. I know I am guilty not writing PAs, cause mostly I cant be bothered. My bad Sad

That all being said. I always have a team or 2 in basic and now I have 1 more then I want with the contest in dm 4 (I am still trying to figure out why I'm there). After the contest is over, (15 more turns), you will only see me in 26, ADM and in 82 prepping for tourneys. Instead of spending money on just regular teams, I want to spend it on timing my warriors better, so I can win more TCs.

I know it is counter productive, but tourneys is now where my interests lie.

Papaiz

p.s. Keep an eye out for me next mail-in. Wink

Master Poster Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Posts: 237 Location: FL

I'll check the bottom of boots for you...

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:50 am

Bookie wrote:

Second of all, which i guess is what happened to basic DM...why is EVERYTHING focused on tournies now? I mean sure tourney stats and prizes are great...there's nothing quite like TV'ing or TC'ing at a face to face but the tourney is WAY overemphasized. Everyone seems obsessed with tourney records and nothing else.

This makes it sound like tourney play and basic arena play are mutually exclusive, i.e. you can't enjoy them both. That is simply not the case. Yes, I enjoyed by recent tourney, seeing several guys go deep into the runoffs. (4 of my 15 guys went 13 rounds or more.) But I enjoy the basic game just as much, even after all these years. Maybe it's because I don't run in 10 basic arenas anymore, just one. But it gives me just as big a thrill to design a "mediocre" warrior, see him TV twice, become Duelmaster with 14 arena fights, and get 4 kills along the way. (Check the current Talcama newsletter.) There are other things that keep basic arenas thriving, like regular contests (Battle Royale, Frothingsloshers Bottles of Beer, Zalcon, etc.), and 'alliance' arenas where just about everyone in a particular alliance keeps a team active. Most managers never give up their first, original arena for sentimental reasons.

A common theme in these responses seems to be "it wasn't like this back in the day." Well, back in the day today's jaded mega-managers had the majority of their active warriors still in basic, having only graduated a relatively few warriors, not all of them actually being good warriors. The passage of time has allowed us to graduate many more quality warriors, warriors worthy of running in ADM. Naturally, some of our focus left basic in favor of ADM. With the dying out of regional rivalries, the play in ADM arenas also suffered. In a recent conversation with Doc Steele, he mentioned how Darkholm, long his favorite ADM arena, became boring when people stopped challenging his position atop the rankings. The dying out of ADM arenas was directly related to the rise in top-end focus. When the best warriors in the game become maxed, it no longer pays to run them in the arena (unless they are free due to a TC). Thus, the focus turns to beating them in tourneys, and arena play becomes devalued. You spend time trying to develop a tourney team capable of pulling down the Psycho Scientists of the world, and you just don't care about your record in Primus anymore. Okay, I'm rambling now.

Back to my original point. I definitely don't consider myself a mega-manager anymore given the fact I only spend $75 per month on DM, run just one basic team, and only 12-15 guys in tourneys. (The FTF was an exception.) But, I still immensely enjoy filling in the numbers on a new warrior, trying to find a way for my PL to win (which I admit has always been one of my worst styles in basic. How did anyone TC rookies with a PL?!?), bloodfeuding/being bloodfeuded, exchanging barbs with Guardian in the personals, trying to make a decent showing in the latest contest, all the things that make basic enjoyable. Given better finances, I'd be playing more basic, not less. It is possible for even an old-timer like me to enjoy both basic and tourney play. Don't assume that it's "all about the TC baby" just because Jiles' tagline says so.

- Neon Necromancer

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:29 pm

Personally I don't see why more managers don't see the pleasure in finding a way to win with "anything". I think I have DA'd, maybe, 5 warriors before they fought in the arena. I'll run 'em for 3-5 fights and if they show ZERO promise then they go. I find great joy in running, for example, a 9 WT Piker to a winning record in a tough arena (it takes some doing to achieve such things. I believe it was Doc Steele that said a great manager is not someone with a bunch of great top end warriors, a great manager is a manager who can run the worst warrior to a .500 or better record (paraphrased).

Master Poster Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Posts: 237 Location: FL

neonone wrote:

This makes it sound like tourney play and basic arena play are mutually exclusive, i.e. you can't enjoy them both.
- Neon Necromancer

I know that wasn't bookie's intent since we've spoken about this very thing... We want people to do it all... but by and large people aren't... We want to bring back the glory days of 30+ team arenas, pages of ads... This stuff has fallen by the wayside and for no good reason... in DM you really can do it all... but i know i'm preaching to the choir a bit here...
-Mordraith

Unchartered Poster Joined: Apr 19, 2004 Posts: 7

I thought I would throw my two cents in. I came back to playing the game after a long break So I understand where bookie is coming from. Back then it wasn't about tourney play that much ppl more focused on developing characters in the game (i.e. I don't mean number crunching) It was fun interacting with ppl in pa's. Ppl had a tendiousy to write some team spotlights which could be just as intertaining as the fights themselves. YOu would be hard pressed to find that nowadays in any arena.
A big part of the game to me is roleplaying aspect. Coming up with different and interesting characters and then lord and behold roleplaying their persona in pa's and teamspotlights. I think in my opionion alot of ppl have lost sight of this in lew of the godlings and or tournment play. The game is still fun but it's lost some of it depth of play it used to have. I used to play back in the day when everybody used to cry about dontello winning all the tourneys and were trying to make him retire and timkord used to fight in regular dm54 long time ago.
Not that isn't fun playing in tournment I have had a few tv's of my own and I admit it is great feeling of accomplishment, but I still love playing in regular dm. I just hope a new surge of mangers come in and restore the luster of roleplaying back into the game. IMHO

I mean it can all be about the TC can it?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:56 pm

mordraith wrote:

neonone wrote:

This makes it sound like tourney play and basic arena play are mutually exclusive, i.e. you can't enjoy them both.
- Neon Necromancer

I know that wasn't bookie's intent since we've spoken about this very thing... We want people to do it all... but by and large people aren't... We want to bring back the glory days of 30+ team arenas, pages of ads... This stuff has fallen by the wayside and for no good reason... in DM you really can do it all... but i know i'm preaching to the choir a bit here...
-Mordraith

It's not that bad when you are running only a few basic warriors, just one or two teams. Beyond that it gets tough to keep up with personals and arena goings on. I'm talking for a "normal" manager that also sets up a modest squad for tourneys, and runs ten or so in ADM. For most people, the internet and these lists take the place of personal ads. Well, not exactly replace, but we spend our time on them rather than on personal ads. Look at how many posts some of you have. [Hey, I finally got my Expert rating!] Also, as the DM population in general has aged, life takes more of our time (kids, wives, etc.). All this has contributed to the demise of basic arenas. My point is, there is a good reason, just not an obvious one. Also, RSI could do something about the reason by marketing their product to attract new, young players.

Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 6:54 am

neonone wrote:

Also, RSI could do something about the reason by marketing their product to attract new, young players.

Hell yeah they could! I first started playing when I saw the ad in a Conan comic book. Now that Dark Horse is publishing a new Conan comic book (if you haven't checked it out, do so, it's a work of art!) I'm hoping to see some ads from RSI in it and then hopefully the steady flow of new managers!

Site Admin Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 1344

Just so everyone can see it one more time... I give you my tag line:

Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 11:00 pm

LHI wrote:

Just so everyone can see it one more time... I give you my tag line:

Just what we'd expect from the man who brought us Duel II... Razz

Site Admin Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 1344

Heh, if I were the man who brought you Duel II I would have also just gotten rid of the whole arena thing. Who needs it anyways? Smile

Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 7:10 am

You need to time your warriors somehow....

Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 9:53 pm

Managerr wrote:

You need to time your warriors somehow....

Good point. Even Jiles would have to agree.

Site Admin Joined: Jun 20, 2002 Posts: 1344

Foiled again!

Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:12 am

What do you all think about a new arena that doesnt get posted results on line? Where to know whats going on in the arena you need to get the newsletter? I think this would insulate in a way that might inspire people to write more personals and stuff. I just know that I write personals and team spotlights but the game persona's are beginning to mesh out with our RL personas and people once we are "normal real people" then why write personal ads for pieces of paper right? Or team spotlights? I begin to feel like the over zealous D&D playerthat everyone looks at sideways while rolling up new character sheets so as to get that godling 18-00 strength on a character. Cant we all just get... imaginations and use them ? hehe. I miss the characters of duelmasters. The mystique, the ominous characters that I would probably never see or maybe but that in game were these enigmatic managers of stables of warriors in arenas where men and women fought in hand to hand armed combat, sometimes to the death... ooooohhh. Anyway, the TC is all fine and good and I am sure I will pick a couple up in the next couple of years but characters
what happened to warriors with personalities? and managers with style... There are defenitely a few that I have come across, the frotherslathers have some personality and keep it on the up and up. The insane chaos kids are getting it together and theming out. the older schoolers seem a little comfortable and almost... bored...
time to get back to work.

Myrrdin the mad monkey magic manifestater