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Duel2 :: View topic - Basher's "well suited"
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Nordheimer
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Joined: Jan 21, 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Up front I want to say I am totally new at this game so this is just food for thought, take it or leave it as you choose. (In fact I am still waiting for my first rollups to comeback with overviews). So I don't claim to have any experience with the workings of this game on ours (the players) side or the moderators/computer side. I have been doing a fair amount of reading to try and gain some insights on how to set up for and play this game with/out totally getting my butt handed to me. Anyway I keep reading that people seem to think that it would intuitively make sense for a basher to be well suited with the fist as a weapon but they are not. The first time I read that I thought well, not really, but, then I keep seeing this time and again. And maybe at first glance it would be... Idk... Wasn't to me. I postulate this. In the basic description for the style it says "Bashers have no use for finesse--a basher just slams his foes and rains blows upon until they fall to the ground". To me this reads like they just swing at their foe regardless of the foes defensive posture, attempting to batter (bash through) their foes parries and armor etc. with no real regard to trying to swing past them (ie miss the parry hit the man) or aim for unarmored spots. Envision this, a Basher goes out to fight armed with a fist and then proceeds to slam and batter his opponents blocks and parries and helmet and armor etc. The opponent blocking, say, with a dagger or short sword or even a shield smiles wickedly and raises his blocking(parrying) arm and watches the hapless Basher cut or smash his relatively (I don't know if warriors in this game wear gauntlets or not nor whether they have any effect if so) unprotected bare hand to ribbons... It just seems to me that this is why the designers may have decided the a Basher was not "well" suited to using the fist as a weapon. This argument IMO also explains why only the AB can "fight bare-handed most effectively" (I read this as most effectively of any of the styles not' as in it was the styles' most effective weapon) as the Aimed Blow is doing just exactly what the Basher is not, he is waiting for the opportune moment and attempting to put a VERY precise hit exactly where he wants it thus totally avoiding(ideally) the opponents parrying weapon, armor, etc.

Whew! That got a lot more verbose than I had intended. Feel free to re-butte, rebuke, or tell me I'm a noob who doesn't know diddly, cuz frankly I am and I don't... Just my thoughts on the matter
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Lugal_gg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I used to fool around with weapons not suited for me guys. Sometimes they win, sometimes they didn't. I went back to the safe choice of staying with best suited weapons. Though my dixie lunger winning a fight with fists was pretty fun to read.
I used broadsword on a basher for a few fights, he actually won most of them. But I won't try it again.
Just because something tells you a class is unsuited to something, should not stop you from trying to do something if you think it would be fun. Fun is what this is all about.

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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Much is available on this site in other areas about bashers, the weapon ambiguities, and the seemingly impotent weapons. Game design is more questioned on the basher than any other style. (except maybe for the resurgence of the aimer.) Suffice to say it is what it is; it may not be exactly one's interpretation of real life; and it is best to learn to use it optimally.

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Nordheimer
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Joined: Jan 21, 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Perhaps I wasn't really clear in my over long rambling above. All I meant to say was I agreed with the game designers on this one and was attempting to illustrate why I do. I don't think it would be a good thing to use Fist with a Basher is all.
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Nomad
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Welcome to the game. The game needs more bashaholics.

Your logic seems reasonable. I think the best counter to that is really just a question of intent again. The fist is an odd weapon in that only the AB is well suited to it. Wait . . . I went to terrablood to check that because it seemed like striker was well suited to everything and TB ssuggest that bashers, ST and PS are all well suited to fist. I've set up a couple basher vs. basher slugfest and while they were fun, they were not well suited. I hate it when Terrablood is wrong. So, are ST and PS suited?

Anyway, my point is that it seems odd to have a weapon that is only suited to one style - and of the other styles it would seem that a basher is the most logical of the other options. A bar room brawler of sorts.

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gentleben
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nomad wrote:
Welcome to the game. The game needs more bashaholics.

Your logic seems reasonable. I think the best counter to that is really just a question of intent again. The fist is an odd weapon in that only the AB is well suited to it. Wait . . . I went to terrablood to check that because it seemed like striker was well suited to everything and TB ssuggest that bashers, ST and PS are all well suited to fist. I've set up a couple basher vs. basher slugfest and while they were fun, they were not well suited. I hate it when Terrablood is wrong. So, are ST and PS suited?

Anyway, my point is that it seems odd to have a weapon that is only suited to one style - and of the other styles it would seem that a basher is the most logical of the other options. A bar room brawler of sorts.


Pretty sure ST is well suited to FI as I have used FI vs <1 before.......I won that fight by getting the jump on a ST and one shotted the fight with a hit to the face with a TREM dmg ST

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Nordheimer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I didn't mean to imply that the AB was the only style that was well suited to the fist I was quoting the basic description of the styles from the start up page "Aimed Blows can fight barehanded most effectively"...
It just seems that as I read more and more I see a fair number of people who think that the Basher ought to be well suited to the fist as a weapon choice. I was merely stating my position as too why (possibly), the designers didn't award the Basher that particular association. I wouldn't disagree that if as Basher, as I understand the concept would probably fair very well in a barroom brawl with a fist. I can certainly see the style working quite well vs other unarmed opponents, just beating them down with heavy blow after blow regardless of their defensive attempts but, vs armed opponents, to go in with the Basher's modus operandi and a bare fist, one would likely most of the time smash/cut/impale his own bare hand against their parries or armor and thus it would not work out very well. And, this could have been the reasoning behind the Basher not being well suited to it.
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is the complete/correct weapon suitability chart (I've never seen this full chart anywhere else)
http://www.duel2.info/weapon_suit.html

For the original comments, perhaps the way you are thinking is exactly what the game designers were thinking and therefore Bashers are marginally suited and not well suited to fist.

Ultimately, the game is a simulation based around a very few people's opinions of how gladiatorial combat works. Then after the simulation, the game was balanced based on the playtesting to make the game 'fun.'

Regardless of what is 'correct' and 'right,' the game clearly sits well with many of us, since it has lasted so long and continues to provide enjoyment to so many of us!

All I'll say, is regardless of whether you win or lose, strive to have a TON OF FUN! Get your money's worth out of your play!!!
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Nordheimer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Assur. That was exactly what I was postulating, just why the basher was deemed by the game designers not to be well suited to the fist. Not really whether or not it really should be... just my take on why it is not.
I hope to find the enjoyment in this game as so many of you folks certainly seem too. I am waiting feverishly for my first overviews to come back and am excited to started in earnest.

On a side note I saw an add for RSI in the back of a dragon magazine when I was a kid in the mid eighties and sent off for a start up in both Duelmasters and Hyborian war but could not at the time afford it (I have tried a few games of Hyborian war over the last few years and not faired very well frankly) and decided it was high time I give this a try.
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

gentleben wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Welcome to the game. The game needs more bashaholics.

Your logic seems reasonable. I think the best counter to that is really just a question of intent again. The fist is an odd weapon in that only the AB is well suited to it. Wait . . . I went to terrablood to check that because it seemed like striker was well suited to everything and TB ssuggest that bashers, ST and PS are all well suited to fist. I've set up a couple basher vs. basher slugfest and while they were fun, they were not well suited. I hate it when Terrablood is wrong. So, are ST and PS suited?

Anyway, my point is that it seems odd to have a weapon that is only suited to one style - and of the other styles it would seem that a basher is the most logical of the other options. A bar room brawler of sorts.


Not only is the ST well-suited, but we have a couple of FI-fave ST grads. (Not so well recommended, nor special at all)

Pretty sure ST is well suited to FI as I have used FI vs <1 before.......I won that fight by getting the jump on a ST and one shotted the fight with a hit to the face with a TREM dmg ST

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Longshot
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There is a basher in DM-8 that uses a fist as his main weapon. I admire him and envy. This guy has beaten three of my five warriors. It is embarrassing what he does to my guys. Your warrior hasn't know humiliation until they have been punched in the butt. Laughing
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Longshot wrote:
There is a basher in DM-8 that uses a fist as his main weapon. I admire him and envy. This guy has beaten three of my five warriors. It is embarrassing what he does to my guys. Your warrior hasn't know humiliation until they have been punched in the butt. Laughing


That is mine, Longshot, and to be fair, he is using FI/SC. AB's aren't the only style that can take advantage of FI/off-hand weapon
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Assurnasirbanipal wrote:
Longshot wrote:
There is a basher in DM-8 that uses a fist as his main weapon. I admire him and envy. This guy has beaten three of my five warriors. It is embarrassing what he does to my guys. Your warrior hasn't know humiliation until they have been punched in the butt. Laughing


That is mine, Longshot, and to be fair, he is using FI/SC. AB's aren't the only style that can take advantage of FI/off-hand weapon


Marginal, broken, and bloody fists and he doesn't even know how to hold a scimitar properly. Gotta love it!

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_Buri_
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Back in the old days of Osksi, we used to arrange bare-fisted naked fights between our Bashers! It was great fun, we'd even go 1-1-1-Parry sometimes, just to see what happened. It's probably the closest we'll ever see to a boxing match in this game.
To me, that's the stuff that makes the game the most fun, the oddball stuff that's not just concentrating on 10-10-win.

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Lugal_gg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

_Buri_ wrote:
Back in the old days of Osksi, we used to arrange bare-fisted naked fights between our Bashers! It was great fun, we'd even go 1-1-1-Parry sometimes, just to see what happened. It's probably the closest we'll ever see to a boxing match in this game.
To me, that's the stuff that makes the game the most fun, the oddball stuff that's not just concentrating on 10-10-win.


Anybody in Sunset wanna do a basher bare nuckle brawl?

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