I tried to post this once already and hit a wrong key and it did not post, so I am trying again. I don't know what to do with one that has both ST & DF a 3. I do not do ADM so I do not mind burning some skills while I raise stats to get a decent warrior in a few turns. What can I do with this one?
Street_Legal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: The Big D (etroit) area
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:30 am
This is a toughie! I see 2 possibilities for 21 WT or do the unforgivable, usually, and forego the 21 WT.
21 WTers:
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 -----> 7-10-11-21-17-15-3 LU ; Use a SH or SS (unsuited) against lighter armor and say "the hell with it" and use LO against 14+ and hope the WT allows him to forget the major unsuitedness. I've done a 7 ST 5 DF with a LO and not had wild swings (a 21 WT)
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 -----> 7-10-11-21-15-15-5 SL use a SH or HA against lighter armor or count on the WT to overcome and use a SC 14+
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 -----> 7-10-11-21-13-15-7 PS/PL stick with a SH and live with it or use some unsuited weaponry
17 WTers; I would rarely advocate not taking a 21 WT but if you want a more rounded warrior that will not be as much a challenge to figure out, and not ADM bound as you put it:
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 -----> 9-10-11-17-15-15-7 SL/LU/PL/PS allows you to wield a SC somewhat unsuited against 14+ armor
I'd personally go with the 21 WT LU and give it a shot and hope it learns the right skills. Second pick would be either the 21 WT Slasher or the PS. Third would be the safe bet 17 WT SL since you can almost use the BS suited against heavy armor (2 ST away to 11 for suited).
_________________ A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by Street_Legal on Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Assurnasirbanipal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1782
Location: San Jose, CA
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:08 am
First: ICK.
Right now, if it were mine, I'd go:
6-10-11-20-19-15-3, but this is with an ADM or Challenger bustout in mind.
As an arena guy for basic only, I would alter that design to:
7-10-11-19-19-15-3 and burn him crispy, making him a poor man's double 21.
Good luck finding a consensus setup for this monster. Other designs I could see myself running:
5-16-11-15-19-15-3 L/PL (This is a fun learning experience, running this guy in APA/F)
8-11-11-21-15-15-3 L/PL
Stillgard Advanced Expert Poster
Joined: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:39 am
I would probably forego the 21 wit and do this. 7-10-11-17-17-15-7 SL. Hatchet is awesome, will be able to take down scum.
_________________ Stillgard
The Taken - Lapur, Runeblades - Jade Mountain, Soul Warriors - Cliffhome, Hero Alliance - Murska, Wheel Of Time - Lyratlian, Neverborn - Iaye, Red Fury - Zukal, Rogues Den - Shadowspire
The Consortium ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 10187
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:32 am
Padre wrote:
I tried to post this once already and hit a wrong key and it did not post, so I am trying again. I don't know what to do with one that has both ST & DF a 3. I do not do ADM so I do not mind burning some skills while I raise stats to get a decent warrior in a few turns. What can I do with this one?
Well, what are some of your opinions or options?
_________________ The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
gentleben ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 4025
Location: Round Rock, Tx
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:49 pm
Hey Padre!!!
we would probably do something like so:
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 --> 9-10-11-21-15-15-3 LU/SL
_________________ Gentleben
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Longshot Grandmaster Poster
Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 937
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:15 pm
I would go with your 7-10-11-21-13-15-7. You can start him off with a short sword and raise your strength to 9 without losing skills.
Street_Legal ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: The Big D (etroit) area
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:50 pm
Longshot wrote:
I would go with your 7-10-11-21-13-15-7. You can start him off with a short sword and raise your strength to 9 without losing skills.
Alright I must be doing something right if someone agrees with my design!
As I think about this I start to look at issues with it. I think I may like this design best but style comes to question for me. As he has stated he is not interested in ADM so I gravitate to the 21 WT to overcome other issues this guy has. By burning to 9 ST and a 15 WL (tough to swallow against a 21 WT's learning ability versus burning stats). I then think about taking some of these stats into better burning points... or not.
Starting off with the non-burn initial design:
ST:12/11/4/-3/5/12 --- low ATT but with the 21 WT I'm fine with that since we're not looking for an ADM or long-term warrior
PS:11/11/4/0/5/10 --- 0 PAR base but can get up to +4; also is suited to Parry tactic so we can borrow a few skills in PAR by running PAR; versatile and can either run fast or go defensive, I theorize that Responsiveness uses DEC skills towards DEF and PAR (if you read the rules it hints at this a bit) and we have alot to borrow from
PL:13/11/8/0/5/10 --- Same as PS in regards to PAR but we have options in Dodge to utilize some DEF and as above it's quick and versatile... and has a 21 WT to learn with
SL:17/11/8/-4/5/11 --- It's like the ST on steroids! Problem is endurance so hope for Great damage or frail opponents! The endurance is why I didn't reccomend LU but if you've got guts go LU with skills of:16/11/10/-2/7/11
TP:11/11/2/4/5/8 --- Once I punched in the numbers this REALLY begins to intrigue me! 11 in INI and RIP for a TP? Not only is it going to learn alot of PAR, no matter it's favorite learn which could be ATT, it has 11 RIP to steal the ATT and 11 INI to possibly overcome it's desire to be defensive!
We of course burn it to a 9 ST and perhaps a 15 WL, if we go with PL/PS/TP we could take a point of CN or two!
We can then backoff and borrow some points from areas to strengthen others if you want to burn away!
3-10-11-15-13-15-3 -----> 7-10-11-21-13-15-7 borrow from WT and DF and go 7-10-11-20-15-15-6 to start out with a bit more endurance and you might be able to go LU/SL more comfortable and it burns better, and faster, to 9-10-11-21-17-15-7 . I like Assur's burners as well but I feel more "comfortable" with mine as a personal choice. I am in no position to say who's is better, nor does it matter since we're trying to help PADRE decide what he will be most comfortable trying to run!!!
As an aside if you give a few thoughts, or comment on ours, Consortium will probably give you some solid advice as well. He sometimes prefers to see how a manager thinks before giving advice on design. He's one of those "Tell me what you think and I'll tell you what I think about what you think," types of teachers! He'd rather teach you to fish rather than giving you a fish!
_________________ A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson
Padre Unchartered Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:17 pm
I ran through previous roll-up discussions and found this exact one had been posted before. It did not say what they finally went with, but I saw one suggestion I am intrigued with. It was ST @ 3-10-11-21-15-21-3, going with FI. Has anyone had anything similar and done well with it?
Padre Unchartered Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:18 pm
In case you did not see my first post, here's a thumbnail of my DM experience. I returned to DM last year after a 6 year absence. My first try at it, I did not learn much. It was like, I rolled-up warriors and threw them into the arena without knowledge of what would happen and I wasn't interested in learning all those things I am now finding are important about making a winning warrior. So I am saying I do not have the knowledge I need to contribute more. That is why I joined the forums and am reading everything I can find in websites like Terrablood's. I appreciate all the input on roll-up suggestions and what skills are involved with each suggestion. Thanks to all!
Padre Unchartered Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:54 pm
Oh, one other thing and I will stop talking. I am kind of OLD and that is why I need to see things written. So I can save them. Thanks again!
The Consortium ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 10187
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting
Posted:
Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:50 am
Padre wrote:
Oh, one other thing and I will stop talking. I am kind of OLD and that is why I need to see things written. So I can save them. Thanks again!
A. You don't know what OLD is.
B. The best way to get opinions on a design is to offer the numbers, provide your own thoughts, then ask for comments/help.
C. Welcome back.
_________________ The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
Padre Unchartered Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 21
Posted:
Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:22 am
The Consortium:
1. Old is 78 years.
2. My purpose for mentioning that was, while I still handle new things
pretty well, I do not remember a lot of long term things.
3. Thanks for the welcome!
Padre Unchartered Poster
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 21
Posted:
Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:48 am
Well, I have been hesitant about giving my thoughts because I did not want to show how little I know about design, but my impulse is to go with a ST and the 21 WT, something like 5-10-11-21-13-21-3, just so I can give him a weapon (SH). I only give up 1 decise and 1 dodge, but keep the attack skill I gave up by dropping from 15 WL to 13. I checked the suggestions on the warrior simulator and there are a number of good ones. Thanks to all for the input.
gentleben ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 4025
Location: Round Rock, Tx
Posted:
Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:05 am
Padre wrote:
Well, I have been hesitant about giving my thoughts because I did not want to show how little I know about design, but my impulse is to go with a ST and the 21 WT, something like 5-10-11-21-13-21-3, just so I can give him a weapon (SH). I only give up 1 decise and 1 dodge, but keep the attack skill I gave up by dropping from 15 WL to 13. I checked the suggestions on the warrior simulator and there are a number of good ones. Thanks to all for the input.
I would not go ST with a 3 DF, that is my opinion. I do not see any winning value to going with the 3/3 ST/DF version, once again, my opinion. With the low DF it almost screams to go BA/SL/LU as they do better with low DF and the starting 3 DF screams DO NOT go BA so that leaves us with LU/SL, once again, this is my opinion. Going off of that, I want Good or batter DMG with my LUs/SLs and the best way to get that with this RU is to add 6 to ST and hope. I almost always go with a 21 WT if it is offered to me. That leaves you with 2 pts left over. I could see an argument for both WL/DF but since these are my thoughts and opinions I will tell you that I would go with the WL for more endurance that the LU/SL will need. so my end result is:
9-10-11-21-15-15-3 LU/SL, I prefer LU over SL but I suck with both so it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, I need to work on both
You are right, 78 is old
_________________ Gentleben
Ben's Bazaar-21
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