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Duel2 :: View topic - On Political Points and Graduating
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SonsofSwords
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Joined: Jan 28, 2016
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Have the political points required for graduating been lowered in, say, the last twenty years? Over the weekend one of my guys got his invite--he only has 14 PP. I recall it being 17 "back in the day."

A few of my other warriors that started way-back-when graduated in that 13-15 point bump in Chall.Champs. I assumed the PP necessary for graduating was lowered to 15; looks like it couldbe 14.

If it was lowered, what are the new standards? Any particular reason it was lowered?

TIA.
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Otto_X
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

No, but there's more than one formula to graduation. Assur has the known ones documented at duel2.info

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_Buri_
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Apparently, there were some changes around 2010:

http://www.duel2.info/graduation.html

this shows that there are several factors involved. I've had many "early" invites over the last several years, and this chart almost always explains why. Almost.

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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That is a tricky question.

I've also seen several graduations at lower than 17 PP's. Originally I was convinced that there was a bug that caused warriors to get extra PP's occasionally. Now I'm not certain.

I think it most likely there is a bug and so sometimes warriors have more PP's than you think they have.

But because of the quantity of these over the last few years (1-3 dozen?), I'm not as sure. Most of the time, when I get these, it is my own error. But I have a handful where warriors graduated early. Because of all the warriors that don't graduate before 17 PP's, I still 'think' it is a bug.
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks again. Interesting insights. I know it isn't a manager calculation error on my part. All these guys (all 4 of my graduates since returning) had 14-15 PP when they got their invite, and only one had any tourney experience at all, and that was only 6 fights (3FE). The one common trait they all share is they were created 20 years ago. Maybe somewhere in the mists of time something funky happened.

If newer warriors are graduating with < 17 PP then that nullifies the old warrior theory. So, for now, it may remain a mystery.
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My, my, my, we have had over 1000 graduates and have not had a single early surprise. None. Nada. (Well, are Lee pulls surprises?)

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The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

SonsofSwords - What is your warrior's ID number? I can look him up.

Consortium - The two warriors I can give you off the top of my head (I have at least two others and have seen and confirmed others). These two I've confirmed multiple times in the newsletters and my program also counts them correctly:
No Bathroom (47-7764)
Rookies: 11-3 (5 PP's)
T324: CC (2 PP's)
T326: CC (2 PP's)
T328: CC (2 PP's)
T330: CC (2 PP's)
Invite: 17-5-1, 32 FE, 104 skills, 13 PP's

Adam (18-9441)
T561: CC (2 PP's)
T562: CC (2 PP's)
T564: CC (2 PP's)
T575: CC (2 PP's)
T576: CC (2 PP's)
T579: CC (2 PP's)
T632: CC (2 PP's)
T636: CC (2 PP's)
Invite: 20-17-2, 37 FE, 116 skills, 16 PP's

Needless to say, I can give a WHOLE LOT more examples of guys who have required the full 17 PP's to graduate, including guys with more of everything than these two have (arena wins-losses, FE, and skills)
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Assurnasirbanipal wrote:
SonsofSwords - What is your warrior's ID number? I can look him up.



Assur, check your PMs. I sent you my list of guys there. Thanks.

SoS
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

SonsofSwords wrote:
Assurnasirbanipal wrote:
SonsofSwords - What is your warrior's ID number? I can look him up.



Assur, check your PMs. I sent you my list of guys there. Thanks.

SoS


I cross checked with my program and I've got SoS's guys with 17 or 18 PP's (except for one with 13, who either has a TV or IS another example of a low PP grad). Also possible I'm missing that newsletter (didn't check for that)
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Assurnasirbanipal wrote:

I cross checked with my program and I've got SoS's guys with 17 or 18 PP's (except for one with 13, who either has a TV or IS another example of a low PP grad). Also possible I'm missing that newsletter (didn't check for that)


Impossible. They may have 17 or 18 PPS now that they've fought their last fight in the arena, and were DM or in CC after the fact.

But when they got their invite, they had between 14-16 PPS. All of them.
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Assur, if you can produce the turns your program says these warriors got each of their PPs, I'd like to see that info. I have all their fights, all the newsletters, and it simply doesn't add up.
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

75-1731 (17 PP's)
CC: 118, 119, 575, 576, 579, 580
DM: 578

75-1801 (17 PP's)
CC: 575, 576, 578, 580, 581, 584
DM: 582

75-1920 (13 PP's)
CC: 575, 582, 584, 585
DM: 586

74-4549 (18 PP's)
CC: 588, 590, 592, 593
DM: 589, 594
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Assurnasirbanipal wrote:
75-1731 (17 PP's)
CC: 118, 119, 575, 576, 579, 580
DM: 578

75-1801 (17 PP's)
CC: 575, 576, 578, 580, 581, 584
DM: 582

75-1920 (13 PP's)
CC: 575, 582, 584, 585
DM: 586

74-4549 (18 PP's)
CC: 588, 590, 592, 593
DM: 589, 594


Our records match.

It is still 2 points for CC, 3 points for DM, and 5 PP for TV/TC? As you can see in each case below, their totals all fall short of 17 PP.


Warrior 75-1731
As you can see, his PP add up to 15 PP, not 17 PP. This warrior participated in no tourneys. So, he earned his invite short 2 PP.

Warrior 75-1801
Again, his turns in CC and as DM adds up to 15 PP, not 17 PP. Again, the discrepancy is 2 PP.

Warrior 75-1920
This warrior won a TV, earning 5PP. His turns in CC and as DM are correct, as you state. His total PPs is 16, not 18 or 13. He earned his invite shy 1 point of 17.

Warrior 74-4549S
Simple math shows that his turns in CC and as DM come to 14, not 18. He earned his invite 3 points short of 17.

Okay, am I believed now?
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

AH! Ok.

It is 5 PP's for DM.

There was question at one point whether you get 3 or 5 PP's for being DM with 90 or less recognition, but I think we've proven you always get 5.
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SonsofSwords
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Assurnasirbanipal wrote:

There was question at one point whether you get 3 or 5 PP's for being DM with 90 or less recognition, but I think we've proven you always get 5.


The only problem with this theory is that in every case my guys were DM with MORE than 90 recognition points (the lowest had 98 recognition points, the rest were at 100+). So that should've still been 3 PPs, right? LOL. This mystery may never be solved.

In any event, the purpose of my beginning this thread was to determine if the graduation criteria had changed in my long absence from the game, as my most recent grads (four of them in a row) have now graduated with less than 17PP.

The most accurate answer seems to be: No, it hasn't changed. It's still 17PP, but there exists cases--perhaps many cases-- where irregularities have occurred, likely through a computer glitch, where some warriors have graduated with less than 17 PP.

Fair enough. I'll go with that.
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