Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Posts: 251
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posted:
Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:31 pm
I thought I had lost all my D2 stuff, but digging around in my closet, lo and behold I found some of it. I even had a couple team rollups. I am fresh getting back in to this I wanted to see what you guys thought if there was any potential.
I am having a hard time seeing much, but could just be my learning curve back in to the game. Or, could be the lack of sleep the past several nights. Regardless, interested to see what you guys would do here. To note, I am looking mostly to run in the regular arenas, so some skill burns if they make sense are okay for me. Not looking to build long term AD warriors.
_________________ Nos morituri te salutamus!
The Master, mgr of:
Dark Overlords (21)
Giant Killers (32)
The 80's (33)
Satans Pride (12)
Land of Prydain (81)
Stik ArchMaster Poster
Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2514
Location: Frozen Tundra of North Dakota
Posted:
Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:42 am
The_Master wrote:
I thought I had lost all my D2 stuff, but digging around in my closet, lo and behold I found some of it. I even had a couple team rollups. I am fresh getting back in to this I wanted to see what you guys thought if there was any potential.
I am having a hard time seeing much, but could just be my learning curve back in to the game. Or, could be the lack of sleep the past several nights. Regardless, interested to see what you guys would do here. To note, I am looking mostly to run in the regular arenas, so some skill burns if they make sense are okay for me. Not looking to build long term AD warriors.
So, just so I am clear on the "burner" concept, that means setting a stat, lets say strength to 12 with the intent of "burning" some skills in a stat raise there? I assume done because that one point that could have been added is needed elsewhere on creation? And "burner" does not refer to an offensive always run 10-10-10-D or something like that?
Quote:
10-5-18-13-13-3-8 --> 13-5-18-17-17-3-11 BA/SL/LU nice big guy!
I had thought size was a curse in most respects. It always seemed when I came back a while ago managers always tended toward smaller sizes since the large sizes tend to suck stat points from other areas. Like this guy, a CN 5. With normal endurance and cannot carry a lot, how do you run something like this. Heaviest weapon they are suited to, VH/VH and hope they get a swing off since they are so slow? Or put a ton of armor on, hope they can take enough hits to get one swing off with tremendous/awesome damage? With the damage bonus I have seen attributed to slashers, does that weight style to slasher? I personally would like to run large warriors. I always pictured a giant plate clad behemoth with a maul coming on to the sands. Everyone may be faster and he is beatable, but if he gets one shot in, look out!
_________________ Nos morituri te salutamus!
The Master, mgr of:
Dark Overlords (21)
Giant Killers (32)
The 80's (33)
Satans Pride (12)
Land of Prydain (81)
The Consortium ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 10140
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting
So, just so I am clear on the "burner" concept, that means setting a stat, lets say strength to 12 with the intent of "burning" some skills in a stat raise there? I assume done because that one point that could have been added is needed elsewhere on creation? And "burner" does not refer to an offensive always run 10-10-10-D or something like that?
Quote:
10-5-18-13-13-3-8 --> 13-5-18-17-17-3-11 BA/SL/LU nice big guy!
I had thought size was a curse in most respects. It always seemed when I came back a while ago managers always tended toward smaller sizes since the large sizes tend to suck stat points from other areas. Like this guy, a CN 5. With normal endurance and cannot carry a lot, how do you run something like this. Heaviest weapon they are suited to, VH/VH and hope they get a swing off since they are so slow? Or put a ton of armor on, hope they can take enough hits to get one swing off with tremendous/awesome damage? With the damage bonus I have seen attributed to slashers, does that weight style to slasher? I personally would like to run large warriors. I always pictured a giant plate clad behemoth with a maul coming on to the sands. Everyone may be faster and he is beatable, but if he gets one shot in, look out!
It IS a nice big guy and well worth running.
Were we to make it, it would be 11 ST and 5 SP, uness you choose the BA style.
"Burn" means to raise stats that also provide skills (e.g. from 14 WT to 15, etc.) There are advantages to doing so in some cases.
... a recent spotlight from Noblish Isle on the topic ...
SKILLS vs. STATS
Training Should Be A Very Personal Thing
D2ers often hear a statement similar to this: “Train skills; do not train stats.” The implication or sometimes direct statement is that you will be sorry if you train stats, especially certain stats.
The Consortium opinion is that, in the majority of circumstances, it is perfectly all right and normal to train stats, and in some cases it is better to train stats. (This process of training stats is often called “burning”) The purpose of this presentation is to explore stat and skill training and to give the D2 Manager some ideas as to if, or when, stat training is either aok or best. The article will also explore when it is considered best not to train stats.
First, to set the stage, there are several principles, givens, and ideas that the reader must understand.
1. Skill training is mostly dependent on WT. (e.g. The higher the wit, the more skills per fight the warrior is likely to learn. It also seems one can learn more skills fighting a very experience/skilled warrior. (Whom apparently teaches well?) There is always a luck roll involved.
2. Stat training is rather highly dependent upon two things:
a. WL; a warrior’s stat learn probability is 5% times the will. (E.g. a warrior with 10 WL has a (5%x10=50%) 50/50 chance to learn the stat, while a warrior with 15 WL has a 75% (3 to 1 odds) chance of learning the stat.
b. The number of stats of that type already trained. A warrior’s learning rate for a specific stat is halved each time he earns one of those stats. For example, a warrior with 10 will has a 50% (5%x10) of earning a first stat of a type, but only a 25% (5%x10 halved) of earning the second stat of that type. ((and on to 12.5% for the third) Realize, however, that it is really 50% for the 1st, 27.5% for the 2nd (since he earned the 1st and is now at 11 WL) and 15% for the 3rd. (Since he had previously bumped the WL to 12). Note: There is always a luck/unlucky roll involved.
3. Training most stats also earns the warrior certain skills.
4. There are limits to the number of stats and skills a warrior can have.
a. In basic, a warrior can have no higher that 21 of any stat type.
b. A warrior is limited to earning 20 skills (beyond the initial skills the warrior is “born” with) of each type in his career. Those 20 skills may come from learning skills or from training a stat which gives the warrior one or more of those skills. He is deemed “maxed” in that attribute when he learns the 20th.
c. A warrior can, however, learn more than 20 skills of a type if he first learns his 20 allowed skills, and then trains stats which give the warrior one of those specific skills. (This factor is why one often hears “Do not train stats or you will be sorry”.)
5. Certain stats improve the “physicals” of your warrior. (e.g. there is a reasonable possibility that training ST can improve how much damage your warrior does when he hits)
With those principles in mind, one can postulate certain scenarios which might provide a basis for decision-making as to “what to train”. These represent, first, the knowledge necessary, then, The Consortium scenarios for training decision – STATs or SKILLs?
KNOWLEDGE
1 Be aware of the probable skill learn rate. (This is a highly variable number, based on many, many factors of the game, including luck rolls.) (However WT is the primary factor.)
2 Be aware of the stat training probability for that stat. (Mostly determined by WL.)
3 Be aware that virtually everything in D2 has a probable roll or luck factor
4 Be aware of the potential “physical” improvement to your warrior for stat training.
5 Know which stat trains do not provide any skills. (E.g. Raising to 12ST improves the stat, but cannot provide any skills or “burning”, while raising to 15ST improves that stat and provides two “burned” skills – attack and parry.) Note: Physicals might improve in either case.
6 Determine if that specific warrior will be enhanced by a possibility of earning more than 20 skills of a type. (Example, a warrior that is meant for the long-term, or is deemed to be a near-godling is extremely likely to benefit from the extra skills at high-ADM classes where every warrior is maxed or near maxed in stats and skills and every single skill can make a difference in a fight. A warrior who is expected to be around for a shorter period, or is to be “retired” upon graduation to Lord Protectorship, will not be around long enough to earn and benefit from the few extra skills available.
7 Know which is likely to benefit your warrior most when you decide to train skills of a certain stat. (e.g. How many skills am I likely to learn if I train skills verses the probability of learning that specific stat train and the subsequent physical and skill gain earned.)
CONSORTIUM DECISION MODEL
1. Upon rollup, evaluate each warrior and classify – long-term/godling (GOD), possible long term (UNS), standard warrior – run to graduation.(NRM)
2. Do not train stats on GOD, unless they are non-burning stats.
3. Limit training stats on UNS, unless they are non-burning stats, until it is decided that this warrior is not a GOD.
4. If a NRM, train whatever the manager believes will most enhance the warrior winning fights.
5. When deciding between stat or skill training, compare the probability quantity of skill earning vs. the probable of learning the chosen stat and its potential physical and skill contribution.
Perhaps a couple of Consortium examples are in order. Let’s consider these two warriors” 14-7-12-15-20-14-11 striker and 4-10-11-17-17-4-21 aimed-blow.
Although a solid warrior, the striker would be considered NRM, especially since strikers are not considered likely Primus-level styles. The warrior probably rolled good damage and good endurance. The odds of getting a first stat raise are near 100% (5%x20, but everything has a “luck” roll). The warrior at 15WT should expect to earn nearly two skills per turn (Consortium rates 15WT skill learn rate at 1.75ish) Consortium Managers would plan two immediate “bumps” – WL to 21 and ST to 15. Moving to 21 WL gains seven fine skills (2 each Att, Par, Def and 1 Decise) and enhances physicals a tiny bit. (Adds 0.4 it points and improves endurance a small amount) Training skills would have yielded a probability of two skills, and three if lucky. The choice to train WL is a no-brainer. The 2nd plan train to 15ST is also a good one. At 15 ST, two skills are earned, attack and parry. The 15ST also enhances weapon selection, making the striker now strong enough to carry certain “larger weapons” with no penalty. (The battle axe is an often favored weapon of Consortiumites – and probably should be a favorite of yours.) The 15ST also has the possibility of raising the warrior’s damage rating from good to great. Consortium places this damage bump odds at 4-1, appx 20% likely.) Compared to the probability of learning 2 skills (or an unlucky 1 or a lucky 3) the 15ST raise seems like a good one. There are no more planned raises for this warrior, but that does not preclude that a Consortium manager might not later attempt an additional ST raise to 16 (if great damage was not attained) and a raise to 8 CN, especially if the warrior has a “frail” rating.
Warrior #2, the aimer is rated a GOD. There would be no planned stat raises to the warrior, training skill all the way until maxed. However, there would be no reason not to consider CN raises, as no CN raise burns skills and every aimer can use additional hit points. This choice would need to be balanced against the probability of earning 2.25 skills per turn (Consortium rating). One additional consideration should be given. If this warrior rolled “little damage”, (normal damage is more likely) the bump to 5ST could be what is needed to get normal damage. The raising of that stat “burns” a parry and an attack skill, however. For a long-term warrior, especially an aimer which can use little-damage somewhat effectively, this bump would not be recommended.
In conclusion, there is no absolute when it comes to training skills or stats. Training stats is certainly not a no-no. Burning skills can be inconsequential. Physical and skill gains from stats can greatly enhance the warrior and the W/L record. But, like most other decisions in D2, there is a trade-off. Burning stats on a long-term, ADM+ warrior could prove damaging to the warrior’s long-term health. Choose wisely rather than automatically.
Perhaps this quote from another player’s article will enhance your understanding? “Raising stats: Care must be taken in doing this. All fighters start out with the ability to learn 20 skills each in the categories of Defense, Parry, Riposte, Attack, Decisiveness, and Initiative. When you learn all 120 skills, you've maxed out. You can get skills through normal learns, or by raising stats; however, if you raise stats BEFORE you max out (except for Con which has no skills), anything gained will count as one of the 20. This is called "burning" skills. If, on the other hand, you wait until you've maxed out, then raising stats will add those imbedded skills to the ones you've learned, enabling you to exceed your limits. But raising stats will give an immediate boost to your abilities. It's a question of short term vs. long term gain.”
COMMODORE PERRY (Consortium affiliated)
_________________ The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
The Consortium ArchMaster Poster
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 10140
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting
So, just so I am clear on the "burner" concept, that means setting a stat, lets say strength to 12 with the intent of "burning" some skills in a stat raise there? I assume done because that one point that could have been added is needed elsewhere on creation? And "burner" does not refer to an offensive always run 10-10-10-D or something like that?
Quote:
10-5-18-13-13-3-8 --> 13-5-18-17-17-3-11 BA/SL/LU nice big guy!
I had thought size was a curse in most respects. It always seemed when I came back a while ago managers always tended toward smaller sizes since the large sizes tend to suck stat points from other areas. Like this guy, a CN 5. With normal endurance and cannot carry a lot, how do you run something like this. Heaviest weapon they are suited to, VH/VH and hope they get a swing off since they are so slow? Or put a ton of armor on, hope they can take enough hits to get one swing off with tremendous/awesome damage? With the damage bonus I have seen attributed to slashers, does that weight style to slasher? I personally would like to run large warriors. I always pictured a giant plate clad behemoth with a maul coming on to the sands. Everyone may be faster and he is beatable, but if he gets one shot in, look out!
It IS a nice big guy and well worth running.
Were we to make it, it would be 11 ST and 5 SP, uness you choose the BA style.
"Burn" means to raise stats that also provide skills (e.g. from 14 WT to 15, etc.) There are advantages to doing so in some cases.
... a recent spotlight from Noblish Isle on the topic ...
SKILLS vs. STATS
Training Should Be A Very Personal Thing
D2ers often hear a statement similar to this: “Train skills; do not train stats.” The implication or sometimes direct statement is that you will be sorry if you train stats, especially certain stats.
The Consortium opinion is that, in the majority of circumstances, it is perfectly all right and normal to train stats, and in some cases it is better to train stats. (This process of training stats is often called “burning”) The purpose of this presentation is to explore stat and skill training and to give the D2 Manager some ideas as to if, or when, stat training is either aok or best. The article will also explore when it is considered best not to train stats.
First, to set the stage, there are several principles, givens, and ideas that the reader must understand.
1. Skill training is mostly dependent on WT. (e.g. The higher the wit, the more skills per fight the warrior is likely to learn. It also seems one can learn more skills fighting a very experience/skilled warrior. (Whom apparently teaches well?) There is always a luck roll involved.
2. Stat training is rather highly dependent upon two things:
a. WL; a warrior’s stat learn probability is 5% times the will. (E.g. a warrior with 10 WL has a (5%x10=50%) 50/50 chance to learn the stat, while a warrior with 15 WL has a 75% (3 to 1 odds) chance of learning the stat.
b. The number of stats of that type already trained. A warrior’s learning rate for a specific stat is halved each time he earns one of those stats. For example, a warrior with 10 will has a 50% (5%x10) of earning a first stat of a type, but only a 25% (5%x10 halved) of earning the second stat of that type. ((and on to 12.5% for the third) Realize, however, that it is really 50% for the 1st, 27.5% for the 2nd (since he earned the 1st and is now at 11 WL) and 15% for the 3rd. (Since he had previously bumped the WL to 12). Note: There is always a luck/unlucky roll involved.
3. Training most stats also earns the warrior certain skills.
4. There are limits to the number of stats and skills a warrior can have.
a. In basic, a warrior can have no higher that 21 of any stat type.
b. A warrior is limited to earning 20 skills (beyond the initial skills the warrior is “born” with) of each type in his career. Those 20 skills may come from learning skills or from training a stat which gives the warrior one or more of those skills. He is deemed “maxed” in that attribute when he learns the 20th.
c. A warrior can, however, learn more than 20 skills of a type if he first learns his 20 allowed skills, and then trains stats which give the warrior one of those specific skills. (This factor is why one often hears “Do not train stats or you will be sorry”.)
5. Certain stats improve the “physicals” of your warrior. (e.g. there is a reasonable possibility that training ST can improve how much damage your warrior does when he hits)
With those principles in mind, one can postulate certain scenarios which might provide a basis for decision-making as to “what to train”. These represent, first, the knowledge necessary, then, The Consortium scenarios for training decision – STATs or SKILLs?
KNOWLEDGE
1 Be aware of the probable skill learn rate. (This is a highly variable number, based on many, many factors of the game, including luck rolls.) (However WT is the primary factor.)
2 Be aware of the stat training probability for that stat. (Mostly determined by WL.)
3 Be aware that virtually everything in D2 has a probable roll or luck factor
4 Be aware of the potential “physical” improvement to your warrior for stat training.
5 Know which stat trains do not provide any skills. (E.g. Raising to 12ST improves the stat, but cannot provide any skills or “burning”, while raising to 15ST improves that stat and provides two “burned” skills – attack and parry.) Note: Physicals might improve in either case.
6 Determine if that specific warrior will be enhanced by a possibility of earning more than 20 skills of a type. (Example, a warrior that is meant for the long-term, or is deemed to be a near-godling is extremely likely to benefit from the extra skills at high-ADM classes where every warrior is maxed or near maxed in stats and skills and every single skill can make a difference in a fight. A warrior who is expected to be around for a shorter period, or is to be “retired” upon graduation to Lord Protectorship, will not be around long enough to earn and benefit from the few extra skills available.
7 Know which is likely to benefit your warrior most when you decide to train skills of a certain stat. (e.g. How many skills am I likely to learn if I train skills verses the probability of learning that specific stat train and the subsequent physical and skill gain earned.)
CONSORTIUM DECISION MODEL
1. Upon rollup, evaluate each warrior and classify – long-term/godling (GOD), possible long term (UNS), standard warrior – run to graduation.(NRM)
2. Do not train stats on GOD, unless they are non-burning stats.
3. Limit training stats on UNS, unless they are non-burning stats, until it is decided that this warrior is not a GOD.
4. If a NRM, train whatever the manager believes will most enhance the warrior winning fights.
5. When deciding between stat or skill training, compare the probability quantity of skill earning vs. the probable of learning the chosen stat and its potential physical and skill contribution.
Perhaps a couple of Consortium examples are in order. Let’s consider these two warriors” 14-7-12-15-20-14-11 striker and 4-10-11-17-17-4-21 aimed-blow.
Although a solid warrior, the striker would be considered NRM, especially since strikers are not considered likely Primus-level styles. The warrior probably rolled good damage and good endurance. The odds of getting a first stat raise are near 100% (5%x20, but everything has a “luck” roll). The warrior at 15WT should expect to earn nearly two skills per turn (Consortium rates 15WT skill learn rate at 1.75ish) Consortium Managers would plan two immediate “bumps” – WL to 21 and ST to 15. Moving to 21 WL gains seven fine skills (2 each Att, Par, Def and 1 Decise) and enhances physicals a tiny bit. (Adds 0.4 it points and improves endurance a small amount) Training skills would have yielded a probability of two skills, and three if lucky. The choice to train WL is a no-brainer. The 2nd plan train to 15ST is also a good one. At 15 ST, two skills are earned, attack and parry. The 15ST also enhances weapon selection, making the striker now strong enough to carry certain “larger weapons” with no penalty. (The battle axe is an often favored weapon of Consortiumites – and probably should be a favorite of yours.) The 15ST also has the possibility of raising the warrior’s damage rating from good to great. Consortium places this damage bump odds at 4-1, appx 20% likely.) Compared to the probability of learning 2 skills (or an unlucky 1 or a lucky 3) the 15ST raise seems like a good one. There are no more planned raises for this warrior, but that does not preclude that a Consortium manager might not later attempt an additional ST raise to 16 (if great damage was not attained) and a raise to 8 CN, especially if the warrior has a “frail” rating.
Warrior #2, the aimer is rated a GOD. There would be no planned stat raises to the warrior, training skill all the way until maxed. However, there would be no reason not to consider CN raises, as no CN raise burns skills and every aimer can use additional hit points. This choice would need to be balanced against the probability of earning 2.25 skills per turn (Consortium rating). One additional consideration should be given. If this warrior rolled “little damage”, (normal damage is more likely) the bump to 5ST could be what is needed to get normal damage. The raising of that stat “burns” a parry and an attack skill, however. For a long-term warrior, especially an aimer which can use little-damage somewhat effectively, this bump would not be recommended.
In conclusion, there is no absolute when it comes to training skills or stats. Training stats is certainly not a no-no. Burning skills can be inconsequential. Physical and skill gains from stats can greatly enhance the warrior and the W/L record. But, like most other decisions in D2, there is a trade-off. Burning stats on a long-term, ADM+ warrior could prove damaging to the warrior’s long-term health. Choose wisely rather than automatically.
Perhaps this quote from another player’s article will enhance your understanding? “Raising stats: Care must be taken in doing this. All fighters start out with the ability to learn 20 skills each in the categories of Defense, Parry, Riposte, Attack, Decisiveness, and Initiative. When you learn all 120 skills, you've maxed out. You can get skills through normal learns, or by raising stats; however, if you raise stats BEFORE you max out (except for Con which has no skills), anything gained will count as one of the 20. This is called "burning" skills. If, on the other hand, you wait until you've maxed out, then raising stats will add those imbedded skills to the ones you've learned, enabling you to exceed your limits. But raising stats will give an immediate boost to your abilities. It's a question of short term vs. long term gain.”
COMMODORE PERRY (Consortium affiliated)
_________________ The Consortium: Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014; 1213 ADM graduates (40+ manager IDs) including 176K+ fights and 118K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1500+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @2085; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1976; Lenpros DM30 @ 1792; Fandils DM46 @1727
Stik ArchMaster Poster
Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2514
Location: Frozen Tundra of North Dakota
Yes, the "burner" reference means a warrior who is set up on creation usually just below certain crucial numbers which are big skill breaks, so that you can train those stats, either quickly early on to reap the early benefits, or later after maxing out learned skills likely after graduation.
With this guy, I set it up so he could easily train WT to 15, burning 4 skills there. Likewise with WL up to 21. No skills at 20 but 21 is the bonanza, 8 skills hiding there! Also DF to 11 is huge, 6 skills there. These skills are effectively "learned" and removed from the available pool of 20 you can learn in each area. You can recover those burned skills however if said warrior reaches Primus. No skills in ST from 8-14.
So if you're not super concerned about a warrior's long term potential or use, and you want to maximize him in basic for wins, sometimes a burner design is very effective. You sacrifice some long term learning for better results now. Or, be VERY patient in waiting to train those stats for a bust-out in a higher tourney until after he's learned all or close to his 20 skills in at least his key areas if not all of them.
You could easily play it safe with this guy and go something like 12-9-13-13-17-7-13, but this design is a bit blah. You could also do a partial burner and get WT to 14 and just burn that to 15, leaving other stats untouched. Your choice!
10-5-18-13-13-3-8 --> 13-5-18-17-17-3-11 BA/SL/LU nice big guy!
You're right, size is indeed looked at historically as a "waste" of points very often, for reasons you stated. Those points can be used better elsewhere in key areas. But when you've got a size 18 that can get WT/WL both to 17 and still hit 11 DF to boot, you generally take it! This guy is blessed with a 3 SP, that stat still being recognized as the least important of all, so the excessive SZ points are made up for here and your key areas (ST, WT, WL, DF) are all at decent starting points.
If you go basher with it, he has enough ST to use QS/MA/WH/WF and can effectively wield the 15 ST weapons with minor penalty. You could alternate running him very hot with little/no armor and decise, trying to get the jump., or plate him up and wait for him to take a few hits and then swing back. With his damage doing most opponents will go down quick if he connects, and this guy shouldn't take too many wild swings.
I would go BA or LU with it. I've run numerous large slashers over the years, a couple very close to this setup, and they always seem to do marginally. But, you could really try any offensive style except AB. Good luck with these!
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Posts: 251
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posted:
Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:34 pm
Stik wrote:
You should put one these teams in Sunset!
Can I run 2 teams in the same arena?
I am already in 21. I used to run in Seam and Riztab when I played as a kid. Thinking about starting one of these sheets in another arena. Suggestions on one that would run opposite of Sunset?
_________________ Nos morituri te salutamus!
The Master, mgr of:
Dark Overlords (21)
Giant Killers (32)
The 80's (33)
Satans Pride (12)
Land of Prydain (81)
Manta Advanced Expert Poster
Joined: Jun 20, 2015
Posts: 194
Posted:
Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:26 am
32, which you have listed under your name, is opposite of 21 and lots of fun. Bring back the Giant Killers. If not that then I would strongly suggest 33. It runs one day after 32. Don't expect too much in the way of fair play there however. Pirates abound.
The_Master Master Poster
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Posts: 251
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posted:
Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:32 am
Manta wrote:
If not that then I would strongly suggest 33. It runs one day after 32. Don't expect too much in the way of fair play there however. Pirates abound.
Manta, so is 33 a bunch of tourney loaded fighters who would eat up a stable that does not do tourneys?
_________________ Nos morituri te salutamus!
The Master, mgr of:
Dark Overlords (21)
Giant Killers (32)
The 80's (33)
Satans Pride (12)
Land of Prydain (81)
Manta Advanced Expert Poster
Joined: Jun 20, 2015
Posts: 194
Posted:
Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:41 am
No. It's a bit chippy and people don't frown on down challenges. If you're into playing along I think it's a lot of fun. It's a very lively arena. Just bring your evil persona and get Den's panties in a bunch.
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and get Den's panties in a bunch.