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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The effects of potential extra damage being inflicted on your opponent as a result of your damage rating has been published many times over.

Little -1d2
Normal 0
Good +1d4
Great +1d6
Tremendous +1d8+1
Awesome +1d6+1d6

I'd like to confirm:
Devestating +4d4

And I'd also be interested in knowing:
Superhuman ???
Unearthly ???

Can anyone confirm or enlighten on the three highest damage ratings?
Thanks in advance!

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Dark_Angel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I never really understood how to read this... what's the english explaination of say "-1d2" Embarassed

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gentleben
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dark_Angel wrote:
I never really understood how to read this... what's the english explaination of say "-1d2" Embarassed


the "d" stands for DIE like in DICE. It is a random roll between 1 and 2.
1d4 is a random roll between 1 and 4
1d6 - 1 and 6.

Obviouslythey do not have a two sided die, that would be a flip of the coin. It is a Roll Playing term, where choices are made by rolling dice.

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Bartender
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I haven't crunched the numbers for the higher damage ratings but your suggestion for devastating seems to be in line with the others and one could expect the two others to be +4d6 and +4d8 respectively.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Also, I think +2d4 for Tremendous would be much more beautiful.

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Street_Legal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have NO idea but I might guess the 4d6 and 4d8 to be to big a jump when you look at the intervals.

-1 to 2
0
1 to 4
1 to 6
2 to 9
2 to 12
4 to 16 or 3 to 17( could be 2d8+1 versus 4d4 giving a 3 to 17 range) a minimum jump from 2 to 4 doesn't seem to follow the previous tendencies

The jumps seem to be between 2 and 4 (maybe 5) on the top end so most likely I'd place my guesses at:

Superhuman 2d10+1 (3 to 21)

Unearthly 2d12+1 (3 to 25) or 2d12+2 (4 to 26) as there seems to be 2 at 1 minimum; 2 at 2 minimum; from my suppositions 2 at 3; leading me to think this top damage may be a minimum of 4 extra damage

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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have no clue whether that bit of Duel2 folklore is true or not and I can't think of a way to test it.

However, if it were true, and if it did indeed come from the damage system in the Elfquest RPG, then it might be worth referencing the manuals for that game to see if there are Devastating, Superhuman, or Unearthly damage categories.
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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

After some exhaustive searching online, I was able to locate the Runequest rules, which was the precursor to ElfQuest. These were the published STR/SIZ damage modifiers:

Total of STR and SIZ Damage Modifier
15 1D8
610 1D6
1115 1D4
1620 1D2
2125 +0
2630 +1D2
3135 +1D4
3640 +1D6
4145 +1D8
4650 +1D10
5160 +1D12
6170 +2D6
7180 +2D8
8190 +2D10
91100 +2D12
101120 +3D10
121140 +3D12
141160 +4D10
161180 +4D12
181200 +5D10

Assuming the ratings from Little to Awesome are correct below:
Little -1d2
Normal 0
Good +1d4
Great +1d6
Tremendous +1d8+1
Awesome +1d6+1d6

One set of guesses could be:
Devestating 2d10
Superhuman 3d10
Unearthly 4d10

....again this is just pure guessing on my part based on a damage table from 1978.

Street - I do like your logic in how you laid on the possibility for 2d8+1, 2d10+1 & 2d12+2 for Devestating to Unearthly. I think those are highly plausible as well.

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Managerr
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is anecdotal evidence only and I am interested if other top end managers have had the same observations.

There seems to be a pretty big jump in damage (both regular hits and extra damage) between Devastating and Superhuman, but little between Superhuman and Unearthly.

With Superhuman Damage, in Primus, it seems you can finish off a 25 CN warrior in 2-6 shots. With Devastating, It seems like it's a lot higher, maybe 4-9'ish? With Unearthly, it seems it's nearly the same, maybe 2-6 as well.

If there's enough maxxed warriors and managers out there willing to experiment, it seems like we should be able to get a pretty good idea of scalability/damage. HP/Damage Levels/Weapon/Armor are all things that can be constant--this shouldn't be hard to track at all.
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Bartender
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Street_Legal wrote:
I have NO idea but I might guess the 4d6 and 4d8 to be to big a jump when you look at the intervals.

I think it depends on whether you look at maximum possible damage or at the expected value. The latter is:

Little: -1.5
Normal: 0
Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5
Tremendous: 5.5 (or 5 if it were +2d4)
Awesome: 7

and I think it wouldn't be too hard to imagine it continuing as such:

Devastating: 10 (e.g. +4d4)
Superhuman: 14 (e.g. +4d6)
Uneartly: 18 (e.g. +4d8)

Now, as I'm writing this, I realize that a nice looking progression from Good to Uneartly would be:

Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5 (+1 compared to previous)
Tremendous: 5 (+1.5 compared to previous)
Awesome: 7 (+2 compared to previous)
Devastating: 9.5 (+2.5 compared to previous)
Superhuman: 12.5 (+3 compared to previous)
Uneartly: 16 (+3.5 compared to previous)

I think you see the pattern there. Aiming for those expected values we could use the following dice:

Good: +1d4
Great: +1d6
Tremendous: +2d4
Awesome: +2d6
Devastating: +2d6 + 1d4
Superhuman: +2d8 + 1d6
Uneartly: +2d8 + 2d6

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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bartender wrote:
Street_Legal wrote:
I have NO idea but I might guess the 4d6 and 4d8 to be to big a jump when you look at the intervals.

I think it depends on whether you look at maximum possible damage or at the expected value. The latter is:

Little: -1.5
Normal: 0
Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5
Tremendous: 5.5 (or 5 if it were +2d4)
Awesome: 7

and I think it wouldn't be too hard to imagine it continuing as such:

Devastating: 10 (e.g. +4d4)
Superhuman: 14 (e.g. +4d6)
Uneartly: 18 (e.g. +4d8)

Now, as I'm writing this, I realize that a nice looking progression from Good to Uneartly would be:

Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5 (+1 compared to previous)
Tremendous: 5 (+1.5 compared to previous)
Awesome: 7 (+2 compared to previous)
Devastating: 9.5 (+2.5 compared to previous)
Superhuman: 12.5 (+3 compared to previous)
Uneartly: 16 (+3.5 compared to previous)

I think you see the pattern there. Aiming for those expected values we could use the following dice:

Good: +1d4
Great: +1d6
Tremendous: +2d4
Awesome: +2d6
Devastating: +2d6 + 1d4
Superhuman: +2d8 + 1d6
Uneartly: +2d8 + 2d6


Bartender, I like how the approach of looking at the average extra damage for each level of damage output to extrapolate the die roll it would take to achieve the outcome. If we were to take the approach that:

Little: -1.5 (from -1d2)
Normal: 0
Good: 2.5 (from 1d4 - minimum dmg of 1)
Great: 3.5 (from 1d6 - min dmg of 1)
Tremendous: 5 (from 2d4 - min dmg of 2)
Awesome: 7 (from 2d6 - min dmg of 2)
Devestating: 10 (from 2d8+1 - min dmg of 3)
Superhuman: 14 (from 2d12+1 - min dmg of 3)
Unearthly: 20 (from 2d10 + 2d8 - min dmg of 4)

That would create a nice even progression where the damage bonus would double every second damage level, as well as nicely progressing the minimum damage output slightly higher.

Unearthly does look a bit high (maybe it is 18.. who knows?) since max hps in the game are 70. However, the damage a warrior actually receives is likely the product of damage generation via the attacker, less damage mitigation from the defender (armor vs. weapon).

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gentleben
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bartender wrote:
Street_Legal wrote:
I have NO idea but I might guess the 4d6 and 4d8 to be to big a jump when you look at the intervals.

I think it depends on whether you look at maximum possible damage or at the expected value. The latter is:

Little: -1.5
Normal: 0
Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5
Tremendous: 5.5 (or 5 if it were +2d4)
Awesome: 7

and I think it wouldn't be too hard to imagine it continuing as such:

Devastating: 10 (e.g. +4d4)
Superhuman: 14 (e.g. +4d6)
Uneartly: 18 (e.g. +4d8)

Now, as I'm writing this, I realize that a nice looking progression from Good to Uneartly would be:

Good: 2.5
Great: 3.5 (+1 compared to previous)
Tremendous: 5 (+1.5 compared to previous)
Awesome: 7 (+2 compared to previous)
Devastating: 9.5 (+2.5 compared to previous)
Superhuman: 12.5 (+3 compared to previous)
Uneartly: 16 (+3.5 compared to previous)

I think you see the pattern there. Aiming for those expected values we could use the following dice:

Good: +1d4
Great: +1d6
Tremendous: +2d4
Awesome: +2d6
Devastating: +2d6 + 1d4
Superhuman: +2d8 + 1d6
Uneartly: +2d8 + 2d6


Bartender- You have too much time on your hands Laughing nicely done BTW but way too much time Wink

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KidArcane
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Um, okay --- an ancillary question: Is extra damage-doing (such as that noted in a fight sequence) a critical attack, or is it merely an indication that a dice roll was made to determine extra damage?

Example: Patroclus vs Holy Shiitake

A very good fight, by the way. Patroclus should have won; next time he challenges and calls the tune.... but I digress...

Although H.S. threw a large number of criticals, there were at least two times when he threw attacks and the fight read: "...whitens with the pain of the wounds... OR face whitens, hands trembling while trying to regain composure..." (He's all better now; thanks for asking. Smile )

Is this to be interpreted as an extra-damage roll, or evidence of a critical attack? Confused

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In my opinion, the extra damage rolled by having good, great, tremendous, etc. is added to every hit. The commentary after the hit (tremendous blow, etc) is an indicator of a high level of damage being applied to the target, after armor is factored.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Otto_X wrote:
In my opinion, the extra damage rolled by having good, great, tremendous, etc. is added to every hit. The commentary after the hit (tremendous blow, etc) is an indicator of a high level of damage being applied to the target, after armor is factored.


I agree with Otto here. I also think the extra die roll is applied to every hit. The comments are produced when the amount of damage exceeds a predetermined number.

As an aside to this, does anyone think that there may be another roll (luck?) that may lessen the damage inflicted? Weapon + dmg rating - armor - luck or WL roll? Maybe I am overcomplicating this whole thing. Its probably a much simpler equation that I have sitting in my head.

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