Duel2.Com  
•   Home  •  Rules  •  Your Account  •  Forums  • Newsletters  •
Navigate
· Home
· Content
· Encyclopedia
· Forums
· Members List
· Newsletters
· Old Newsletters
· Private Messages
· Setup
· Tourneys
· Your Account
User Info
Welcome, Anonymous
Nickname
Password
(Register)
Membership:
Latest: TheWanderer
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 19800

People Online:
Visitors:
Members:
Total: 0
Duel2.Com: Forums

Duel2 :: View topic - Weapons in Both Hands
 Forum FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Register  •  Profile  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in

 
Post new topicReply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
trmweb
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Dec 05, 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've rarely used a weapon in both hands (like SC/SC) unless my warrior was either Ambidextrous or had SP & DF over 15. However, I recently read in the DM 93 Newsletter that the off-hand weapon is better than a shield as long as you meet the stat criteria. I'm familiar with Assur's tables, so I understand how fighters qualify for using them, but I still have questions.

My questions relate to when its recommended to use two weapons? Are there certain styles that seem to do better than others with this technique (AB or PR)? Is using two hands with the SC better than using one in each hand?

I'm trying to fit the two-weapon technique into my strategies. Therefore, any advice or shared experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Trim
View user's profileSend private message
Otto_X
Grandmaster Poster
Grandmaster Poster


Joined: Jan 09, 2003
Posts: 614
Location: Moline, IL

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I almost never use two weapons. Most guys aren't nearly coordinated enough to even try it. I don't think there's a significant advantage to using an off-hand weapon, anyway.

_________________
Technology (5), The Syndicate (12), 82nd Illinois (17), Seinfeld (19), Ottoman Empire (32), Bad Bread (33), Ottodrome (47, 84), Scrabble (65), Otto's Diner (81), et al.
View user's profileSend private message
Assurnasirbanipal
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1474
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Since others may read this that don't have insight into the table you refer to (gives the deftness requirements to use 2 weapons at once):

http://www.duel2.info/weapon_req.html

As to when it is better? Much more complicated question with multiple reasons that I can think of.

1) Theoretically using an offhand weapon would provide more parry than using a single weapon in two hands and you want to parry. Not proven.
2) Don't want a shield in your offhand (attacking with a shield is not usually useful)
3) Offhand weapons have different requirements than main hand weapons. (3 wit in particular)
4) Can wield offhand weapons unsuited to your style (Bashers with the SC).
5) Your main hand weapon doesn't have any known benefit from using it two-handed, so why not carry an offhand weapon as well. Again, nobody is really sure which weapons have benefits for using them in 2 hands, so this is mostly theory.

My own practice:
Most of my WOS's run with a single weapon.
PL's and PR's in particular tend to dual-wield if they aren't using a shield.
I use a lot of off-hand SC's on bashers.


Last edited by Assurnasirbanipal on Thu May 30, 2013 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
Stillgard
Advanced Expert Poster
Advanced Expert Poster


Joined: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 114
Location: Green Bay, WI

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I only use off hand weapons for defensive styles (Wos,PR,PS,PL,TP) and Aimed blows. I mostly use shields with Total Parrys, but I do have a few in advanced that use off hand weapons.

_________________
Stillgard
The Taken - Lapur, Runeblades - Jade Mountain, Soul Warriors - Cliffhome, Hero Alliance - Murska, Wheel Of Time - Lyratlian, Neverborn - Iaye, Red Fury - Zukal, Rogues Den - Shadowspire
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
trmweb
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Dec 05, 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Assur -- Thanks for sharing the link! It's hard to get it using the iPhone.

My only success (very limited) has been with a PR and AB using two weapons. This seems to be the "trend" mentioned here. I may try with my PL just to experiment. I appreciate the responses, they are "food for thought".

I've never heard of two weapons being a favorite, but has anyone thought that it might be? What I mean, could the combination of two weapons be the "real" fave even though the Duel2 software doesn't ever report it?

Just curious ...
View user's profileSend private message
KidArcane
Advanced Master Poster
Advanced Master Poster


Joined: Apr 26, 2003
Posts: 485
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Using two weapons (one in each hand) can work very nicely. Most of the time, not so much... I believe it has to do with stats (primarily), style, and individual warrior preferences.

1st, I don't usually bother with an off-hand weapon unless my fighter has the stats to use it in his main hand. However, I have a caveat for this. I have noticed that even though a fighter may be qualified to carry a high DF weapon in the main hand (an epee, for instance) it doesn't follow that he/she will do well carrying TWO epees. Generally, the second weapon should be less demanding -- a hatchet or shortsword, for instance. Something that will parry well with a moderate DF and probably won't break. This is what has usually worked for me, anyway. Regardless, if the DF isn't at least 15 I won't try using two weapons, even if they are capable of it (theoretically). And then I'm playing it defensive, very defensive. I'm not going for the riposte or response tactic. Personally, I don't believe the successful two hands/two weapons warrior has a DF less than 17. No doubt some manager somewhere can show you an example of one, but I have never seen it.

2nd, the style is important. Defensives (parry-anything) and the AB seem to work better with two weapons than anything else. I realize that most managers (it seems to me) will take any fighter with a DF of 17+ and make it an AB. (HIGH DF? IT'S AN AIMER -- PERIOD!) But parry types also do well with the DF, and they are more likely to use that off-hand weapon offensively! Wastes? For best results I go two-handed on one weapon or carry a shield. Classic but very reliable. However, I think the AB, above all other styles, is most likely to use both weapons! But again, this is just what I've observed and this is based on me and how I run 'em. I don't have tons of experience with AB's. Having said that, I have had high-wit TP's who have done very well with off-hand weapons. So well, in fact, they died within ten or twelve turns because they just rose through the ranks too quickly!! I see a lot of damage-sponge TP's lately, but I haven't seen a genius TP in a while. They are dangerous with an off-hand weapon!

3rd point I want to make -- I had a lot of success with a PR who used an off-hand weapon, so I made another and tried it again. It didn't do well at all. Maybe it was the rhythm, or maybe the stats were just too different from my previous PR (but not by much) but that strategy simply didn't work for me twice. Wink

I advocate simply trying it and seeing how it works. I would suggest your fighter have at least an Expert in Parry or Riposte before you try, though, unless it's an AB. Good luck!

_________________
"Don't make me destroy you." -- Darth Vader
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Tripwire
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 1966

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I use it for warriors that I want to parry and attack. Thus PR, PL and OTP's I have used it successfully.

Usually somethign like LO/SH, LO/DA etc. That way you have something that you can parry with as well as having a weapon in your off hand instead of a shield that gives cruddy damage.

I don't think I have used a shield with a PL in a very very long time.

_________________
Active Arenas: Of Wolf and Man - DM 18, DM 81
Alliance: The Iron Council
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
trmweb
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Dec 05, 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What about the warriors who are ambidextrous? Does this mean they can automatically use two weapons? Or do they still need to meet the stat requirements?

BTW - Your tidbits of wisdom is exactly what I was looking for in this topic. Great responses! Some confirms my guesses and others are altogether new material for me.
View user's profileSend private message
The Consortium
ArchMaster Poster
ArchMaster Poster


Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8805
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 12:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Seldom use two.
When might we:
1. When we are unsure that our warrior will pull his backup weapon when needed, hence and do not want to take a chance without a weapon, then will use off hand.
2. When a parry weapon seems appropriate (e.g. TP, PR, etc) and want a weapon the warrior might attck with rather than a shield

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1000 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 105K+ fights and 68K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1518*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1460; Lenpros DM30 @ 1424; Fandils @ 1336
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Deke
Advanced Master Poster
Advanced Master Poster


Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Atlanta Georgia Area

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Doc LeGrand Theory from the 1990s.

I only carry an off hand shield when I want to parry, which is only at the low end of the game. At the high end dodge is preferred over parry.

I carry an off hand when a primary weapon is one hand only, such as:

Dagger
Hatchet
War Hammer (same might be true for a Mace, but I never uses maces)
Epee
Longsword
Shortsword

My preferred off hand weapon is a hatchet, and I use an off hand war hammer against 16+ armor.

_________________
Deke is a relic of the past known as Doc LeGrand
Arena 21, 81, 102 as Doc LeGrand's Lab

http://www.delefax.com/ARKYN/Delefax_Web_Portal.html
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's websiteAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN MessengerICQ Number
Longshot
Grandmaster Poster
Grandmaster Poster


Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 524
Location: Port Moody, BC

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I haven't used an off hand weapon since I came out of retirement. I was wondering if it was still a good choice. If I did use an off hand weapon, I preferred short swords or daggers. I only used this tactic with parry-riposte.
View user's profileSend private message
Deke
Advanced Master Poster
Advanced Master Poster


Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Atlanta Georgia Area

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If I remember I will send my Longsword Lunger out with a main hand LO and an off hand SH, and let you know how it woks out.

_________________
Deke is a relic of the past known as Doc LeGrand
Arena 21, 81, 102 as Doc LeGrand's Lab

http://www.delefax.com/ARKYN/Delefax_Web_Portal.html
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's websiteAIM AddressYahoo MessengerMSN MessengerICQ Number
vincexs
Unchartered Poster


Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

No rush. Take your time. Feel free to even skip this turn. And I'm not saying that based on how well my team did this turn.
View user's profileSend private message
trmweb
Expert Poster
Expert Poster


Joined: Dec 05, 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If this a spammer (and I think they are), they are rather clever. Even so, it was good to re-read these posts. Maybe some of the more "meaty" posts should be intentionally "bumped" (by actual DM2 players).

Just a thought,
Trim
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB 2.0.10 © 2001 phpBB Group

Version 2.0.6 of PHP-Nuke Port by Tom Nitzschner © 2002 www.toms-home.com
Forums ©
:: fisubsilver shadow phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by coldblooded (www.nukemods.com) ::