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PurpleSage
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

With all due respect,

I have had a truly wild idea. I have no idea if people would go for it or RSI would.
Primus: There needs to be an end state for a warrior. Like in all things the old makes way for the new.

The Subject: Primus Top End & Primus Tourney TC.

The Goal: Duelmaster of all the realm. Some turn over at the top end that attaracts longer carreers for warriors.

The Reason: Making the game about the Duelmaster (The Lady's Protector) as it used to be.

The Method: Retirement. Any warrior who makes it to The Lady's Protectorat (place a number here) times is rewarded with Retirement. Tie in One and out of tourney's for a Primus TC.

Retirement (The Reward): A wooden Plaque with the warriors name, vitals, Saying from the manager, and possibly a dedicated hall on the website where a photo of the Plaque. The reward to the Manger also includes a 100 free fight (able to be divided amoung any number of warriors). gift certificate.

The Prize for a Primus TC: 50 free Fights and A Plaque with Warrior's Name, Stable, Record, Tourney, Tourney Record and a Saying from the Manager.

The Value to the Manager. True Immortality for his Warrior as long as the game exists and basicly $200 worth of fights.

The Value to RSI: More involvment from Managers possibly attracting retired managers and new managers.

The Cost: 200 fights worth of their service which will be recouped by any new warriors that the Retired Warriors Manager starts.

Its like Graduation from Regular.

The Oposition: We invested alot of money into our Primus warriors and we are on top and no one should be alowed to usurp us without going through us.

Would love to see what people think.

Sincerely Purple Sage.
Trying to think out of the box while within the box.
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bubbaganoosh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i don't see the guys managing the upper echelon of primus going for that.

if it were you, would you want that to happen? that deal isn't sweet enough IMHO.

points for posting an idea though...

- b.ganoosh
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Visionst01
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Perhaps a better option would be to have warriors lose there immortatlity after a certain number of FE.

Just as an example lets say 500FE is that breakpoint.
At that time the warrior has two choices, retire and recieve Hall of Fame recognition and any other perks RSI cares to give them OR continue to fight until Ahringol comes knocking.

One of the perks could be to get a DYO warrior placed on a team of your choice.

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Kellumbo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

So, after people invest years of time, and thousands of dollars into warriors, to finally get them up towards the top, you want the warriors to go away?

For me, being able to compete in the Primus tourney, with Primus quality warriors is the ultimate goal.

I really think forced retirement is a bad, bad idea.

While it is nice that you are looking at ways to improve the top of the game (although, do you even have warriors at the top to know if it needs improving?), my thinking is that a better option might be to help the other styles be more competetive (if they aren't already, and we just don't know it). If all styles had a shot to TC primus, instead of the basically agreed upon few, then I think you would see more participation in the Primus tourney.

-DK
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bubbaganoosh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

i agree with kellumbo...

there's no simple solution to the log jam at the top. it's inevitable in a finite game to have people at the top who are just plain better than those below them. the game can't go on and on and on... but it becomes more difficult as time passes to get a warrior able to be competetive with those guys. of course, people were thinking this back when donetello was crushing the competition.

you would probably have to dish out an immortal DYO with a free pass until he hits ADM in order to sweeten the pot a little. perhaps add the retired warrior to the dark arena rotation of their home arena? that might even draw people to that arena just to see there guys slaughtered by a legend. Smile might be a fast fight... "crit to the head, death intent statement, head shot, done.

personally, i have a couple in primus as contenders and really don't give a damn what they do. leave it how it is for all i care. i'm much more drawn to basic play anyhow.

-b.ganoosh
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PurpleSage
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Kellumbo wrote:
So, after people invest years of time, and thousands of dollars into warriors, to finally get them up towards the top, you want the warriors to go away?

For me, being able to compete in the Primus tourney, with Primus quality warriors is the ultimate goal.

I really think forced retirement is a bad, bad idea.

While it is nice that you are looking at ways to improve the top of the game (although, do you even have warriors at the top to know if it needs improving?), my thinking is that a better option might be to help the other styles be more competetive (if they aren't already, and we just don't know it). If all styles had a shot to TC primus, instead of the basically agreed upon few, then I think you would see more participation in the Primus tourney.

-DK


I have two warriors that I am not fighting in Primus at this time. However you have begun like many with personal attacks to belittle anyone who puts out an idea contrary to your thinking. I would respectfully request you keep your peraonal attacks and flames in the off topic area. The diffrence between selfish and selfless is easy to describe. Selfish "I am on top. I spent the money. MIne Mine Mine." SelfLess "I had my time in the sun with the best spot on the beach here you have a turn and I won't kick sand on you."

I agree with RSI on the tweek of styles. you do not tweek all styles up you tweek the bad spot on the wheel down. From what I have been told they are working on this with the AB. Now Kellumbo please do not take anything I have said personally but I will repeat if attacked personally I will ignore you. I have no reason to have anything against you except for your belittlement.


Sincerely Purple Sage
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PurpleSage
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

bubbaganoosh wrote:
i agree with kellumbo...

there's no simple solution to the log jam at the top. it's inevitable in a finite game to have people at the top who are just plain better than those below them. the game can't go on and on and on... but it becomes more difficult as time passes to get a warrior able to be competetive with those guys. of course, people were thinking this back when donetello was crushing the competition.

you would probably have to dish out an immortal DYO with a free pass until he hits ADM in order to sweeten the pot a little. perhaps add the retired warrior to the dark arena rotation of their home arena? that might even draw people to that arena just to see there guys slaughtered by a legend. Smile might be a fast fight... "crit to the head, death intent statement, head shot, done.

personally, i have a couple in primus as contenders and really don't give a damn what they do. leave it how it is for all i care. i'm much more drawn to basic play anyhow.

-b.ganoosh


I respect your comment.

I disagree. all good. Shocked

Sincerely Purple Sage
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Visionst01
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Why is it every time someone voices there opinion about something that everyone knows is a problem with the game, all you hear is "You aren't allow to have an opinion in that discussion, because you don't even play there."

Perhaps if RSI had listened to ALL of the players over the last 10-15 years the game wouldn't have those problems right now.

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bubbaganoosh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

PurpleSage wrote:
bubbaganoosh wrote:
i agree with kellumbo...

there's no simple solution to the log jam at the top. it's inevitable in a finite game to have people at the top who are just plain better than those below them. the game can't go on and on and on... but it becomes more difficult as time passes to get a warrior able to be competetive with those guys. of course, people were thinking this back when donetello was crushing the competition.

you would probably have to dish out an immortal DYO with a free pass until he hits ADM in order to sweeten the pot a little. perhaps add the retired warrior to the dark arena rotation of their home arena? that might even draw people to that arena just to see there guys slaughtered by a legend. Smile might be a fast fight... "crit to the head, death intent statement, head shot, done.

personally, i have a couple in primus as contenders and really don't give a damn what they do. leave it how it is for all i care. i'm much more drawn to basic play anyhow.

-b.ganoosh


I respect your comment.

I disagree. all good. Shocked

Sincerely Purple Sage


what part exactly do you disagree with?

all i'm saying is it's easy for folks on the "without" side to push for a socialist type of reform (spread the wealth) while expecting those on the "with" side to just step aside and go with the flow.

purple sage: if you're running impaler, would you be as enthusiastic of forced retirement?
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PurpleSage
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

bubbaganoosh wrote:
PurpleSage wrote:
bubbaganoosh wrote:
i .......there's no simple solution to the log jam at the top.(1) it's inevitable in a finite game to have people at the top who are just plain better than those below them. .(2) the game can't go on and on and on....(3) but it becomes more difficult as time passes to get a warrior able to be competetive with those guys. .(4) of course, people were thinking this back when donetello was crushing the competition.

you would probably have to dish out an immortal DYO with a free pass until he hits ADM in order to sweeten the pot a little..(5) perhaps add the retired warrior to the dark arena rotation of their home arena?.(6) that might even draw people to that arena just to see there guys slaughtered by a legend. Smile might be a fast fight... "crit to the head, death intent statement, head shot, done.

personally, i have a couple in primus as contenders and really don't give a damn what they do. .(7) leave it how it is for all i care. i'm much more drawn to basic play anyhow.

-b.ganoosh


I respect your comment.

I disagree. all good. Shocked

Sincerely Purple Sage


what part exactly do you disagree with?

all i'm saying is it's easy for folks on the "without" side to push for a socialist.(9) type of reform (spread the wealth) while expecting those on the "with" side to just step aside and go with the flow.

purple sage: if you're running impaler, would you be as enthusiastic of forced retirement?.(10)


Bubbaganosh,

First (9) This is a personal attack used by people to call other a comunist. Please refrain.

Secound (1) Disagree. I provided a simple solution the only dificulty is for RSI to impliment it. Many others have provided simple solutions even with in this site. Even ones from large Tourney managers such as Guardian.

(2) Disagree The game is not finite. The Tourney Prizes and the inability to improve a screwed warrior without it are causing problems. I do not advocate anything affecting Tourney structure in anyway except the 1 TC per Class and the Same Policy for Primus with a greater prize for the Primus TC except no way an Imortal DYO. That is pure greed to me.

(3) Disagree. International Mail order correspondence Chess is still strong started in the 1950's.

(4) Agree. Thats the point of the idea. Glad to see you see the problem. I am sorry you feel their is no solution.

(5) Pure Greed. All imortalities are Greed Prizes. Like when it was fought for and obtained that a TC in the Dead tourney instead of coming back to ADM Boosted now is an Imortal tourney warrior one without fear of dying. Ridiculous and should be banded from Regular level tourneys. Its not a fair fight but thats what many of the changes have been unfortunately. RSI listens or listened to people wanting to make tourney's stronger. Conversely Arena's fell as predicted by the way. Unfortunately Greed for more more more for tourney warriors is still occuring. Its a time to put a tournicut on those ideas and focus on the arena.

(6) Agree. I like this idea of yours and will sign anything in support of it.

(7) Agree reinforces my point that you mouth that Kellumbo is basicly right however you yourself act as Purple Sage is right. Probabbly both are correct on certain things as with this post where you asked me to state what particularly I disagree with.

(Cool Couldn't find eight. LOL think I messed up.

(9) Yes. Impaler would have been my success story. I would have accomplished great things and been happy with the thrill of trying to do it again. I am not a greedy sit in my Ivory Tower Guy. Not saying anyone else is unless you want to claim that title.

Sincerely Purple Sage
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bubbaganoosh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

PurpleSage wrote:
bubbaganoosh wrote:
PurpleSage wrote:
bubbaganoosh wrote:
i .......there's no simple solution to the log jam at the top.(1) it's inevitable in a finite game to have people at the top who are just plain better than those below them. .(2) the game can't go on and on and on....(3) but it becomes more difficult as time passes to get a warrior able to be competetive with those guys. .(4) of course, people were thinking this back when donetello was crushing the competition.

you would probably have to dish out an immortal DYO with a free pass until he hits ADM in order to sweeten the pot a little..(5) perhaps add the retired warrior to the dark arena rotation of their home arena?.(6) that might even draw people to that arena just to see there guys slaughtered by a legend. Smile might be a fast fight... "crit to the head, death intent statement, head shot, done.

personally, i have a couple in primus as contenders and really don't give a damn what they do. .(7) leave it how it is for all i care. i'm much more drawn to basic play anyhow.

-b.ganoosh


I respect your comment.

I disagree. all good. Shocked

Sincerely Purple Sage


what part exactly do you disagree with?

all i'm saying is it's easy for folks on the "without" side to push for a socialist.(9) type of reform (spread the wealth) while expecting those on the "with" side to just step aside and go with the flow.

purple sage: if you're running impaler, would you be as enthusiastic of forced retirement?.(10)


Bubbaganosh,

First (9) This is a personal attack used by people to call other a comunist. Please refrain.

Secound (1) Disagree. I provided a simple solution the only dificulty is for RSI to impliment it. Many others have provided simple solutions even with in this site. Even ones from large Tourney managers such as Guardian.

(2) Disagree The game is not finite. The Tourney Prizes and the inability to improve a screwed warrior without it are causing problems. I do not advocate anything affecting Tourney structure in anyway except the 1 TC per Class and the Same Policy for Primus with a greater prize for the Primus TC except no way an Imortal DYO. That is pure greed to me.

(3) Disagree. International Mail order correspondence Chess is still strong started in the 1950's.

(4) Agree. Thats the point of the idea. Glad to see you see the problem. I am sorry you feel their is no solution.

(5) Pure Greed. All imortalities are Greed Prizes. Like when it was fought for and obtained that a TC in the Dead tourney instead of coming back to ADM Boosted now is an Imortal tourney warrior one without fear of dying. Ridiculous and should be banded from Regular level tourneys. Its not a fair fight but thats what many of the changes have been unfortunately. RSI listens or listened to people wanting to make tourney's stronger. Conversely Arena's fell as predicted by the way. Unfortunately Greed for more more more for tourney warriors is still occuring. Its a time to put a tournicut on those ideas and focus on the arena.

(6) Agree. I like this idea of yours and will sign anything in support of it.

(7) Agree reinforces my point that you mouth that Kellumbo is basicly right however you yourself act as Purple Sage is right. Probabbly both are correct on certain things as with this post where you asked me to state what particularly I disagree with.

(Cool Couldn't find eight. LOL think I messed up.

(9) Yes. Impaler would have been my success story. I would have accomplished great things and been happy with the thrill of trying to do it again. I am not a greedy sit in my Ivory Tower Guy. Not saying anyone else is unless you want to claim that title.

Sincerely Purple Sage


i almost didn't read past your first sentence... refering to socialism equates to calling someone a communist? for real? i think you're a bit oversensative to people "attacking" you. this is the 2nd time in this thread you've accused someone of it and both instances were benign.

let me ask you something: is english your primary language? <-- i'm being completely serious, not trying to "attack" you. but i've read a lot of your posts... i don't know.

anyhow...

you haven't provided a simple solution. you have neither the input of the top tier managers or that of anyone else aside from me and kellumbo and that certainly isn't worth much. Smile i think your solution has many holes and is no where near being fair or equitable.

wth are you talking about - 1950's chess? Rolling Eyes

when did i say i felt there is no solution? i just said you hadn't discovered it yet. and then i offered up my version of a comp package.

an immortal DYO isn't unreasonable. immortality prizes aren't greedy either. i have an immortal champion's class lunger. so what? there are probably a handfull of immortal basic warriors running around - i have no idea - but how has that adversely affected the game?

my point was that if you expect a manager to retire an elite warrior that he or she has invested YEARS and thousands of dollars in getting them to the top, you have got to come off of a sweet deal. you can't expect them to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. i sure as hell wouldn't... not without fair compensation.

- b.ganoosh/mike
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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I have two warriors that I am not fighting in Primus at this time. However you have begun like many with personal attacks to belittle anyone who puts out an idea contrary to your thinking. I would respectfully request you keep your peraonal attacks and flames in the off topic area. The diffrence between selfish and selfless is easy to describe. Selfish "I am on top. I spent the money. MIne Mine Mine." SelfLess "I had my time in the sun with the best spot on the beach here you have a turn and I won't kick sand on you."

I agree with RSI on the tweek of styles. you do not tweek all styles up you tweek the bad spot on the wheel down. From what I have been told they are working on this with the AB. Now Kellumbo please do not take anything I have said personally but I will repeat if attacked personally I will ignore you. I have no reason to have anything against you except for your belittlement.


Sincerely Purple Sage


I'm not normally the first in line to defend Kellumbo on the forums, but WHAT THE?!?

His reply was perfectly respectful. Him asking if you have any warriors at the top of Primus that would provide you with knowledge about the flaws of the top end of the game is a legitimate question. The question is, how do you know there is a problem in Primus? Is it just from second hand information that you've read on the forums or have you experienced it first hand? And that was only PART of his reply. He expressed his opinion that providing a disincentive for people to "invest years of time" and "thousands of dollars" would be bad for the game. And he offered an alternate solution to the perceived problem in Primus.

You pulled the same card on Bubbaganoosh, as well: "Personal Attacks"

You claim that these people are using personal attacks to silence you or dismiss your ideas, but they are actually participating in a discussion that you have begun. You are using the "Personal Attack" card to dismiss THEIR ideas.

If you are going to continue being such a prolific poster to the forums, you are going to have to develop thicker skin and not take things personally when people don't agree with your ideas.
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PurpleSage
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

One Armed Bandit wrote:
I'm not normally the first in line to defend Kellumbo on the forums, but WHAT THE?!?

His reply was perfectly respectful. .....

You pulled the same card on Bubbaganoosh, as well: "Personal Attacks"

You claim that these people are using personal attacks to silence you or dismiss your ideas, but they are actually participating in a discussion that you have begun. You are using the "Personal Attack" card to dismiss THEIR ideas.

If you are going to continue being such a prolific poster to the forums, you are going to have to develop thicker skin and not take things personally when people don't agree with your ideas.


I was not the only one to notice these mild personal attacks. And yes I threw it out right away. I don't not want to involve myself in those activities or thread jacking which this unfortunately has devolved into. Not your fault.

So lets ask the question see if anyone responds though its been asked before. Is the top end situation in DUEL2 disheartening managers from running more warriors than they are.

Yes or NO. for me yes. I chose to run my Arena Warriors first when coming back and not my Primus warriors at this time. Warriors I have invested easily over $500 in. So retiring someone elses warrior so I can spend up to the $1,000 on mine is where you can take the money thing out of the equation.

And before it happens where someone will pull the twist saying well Purple Sage your saying your warrior is more important than their warrior that they have put $1,000 dollars into. Please don't make it a personal point against me. I am not the only one sitting warriors out. Bubbaganosh himself admits he is doing it also. In the forums it is stated that many managers do this because they fell they will never have a chance. If each person adds a 5lb pag of dirt to their mountain and one person already has a higher mountain then the person with the higher mountain will always be higher. But in reality as mountains age they wear down thus the Applacians are shorter thant the Rokkies even though they are older.

Sincerely Purple Sage
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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
So lets ask the question see if anyone responds though its been asked before. Is the top end situation in DUEL2 disheartening managers from running more warriors than they are.

Yes or NO.


No.

I've never maxed out a warrior, but I am actively working on. I like to try things for myself. To that end, I plan on maxing good warriors regardless of style and seeing how they fare at the top level of the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

One Armed Bandit wrote:
Quote:
So lets ask the question see if anyone responds though its been asked before. Is the top end situation in DUEL2 disheartening managers from running more warriors than they are.

Yes or NO.


No.

I've never maxed out a warrior, but I am actively working on. I like to try things for myself. To that end, I plan on maxing good warriors regardless of style and seeing how they fare at the top level of the game.


With the qualifier that I am primarily a basic manager - sort of.

Knowing that truly competing at the very top end is unlikely without prizes has kept me from aiming for that and will probably continue to do so.

However- two things worth noting:
1. I am beginning to play in AD - there is still a LOT of room before one runs into the Primus wall. I really don't have a problem leaving that game for others.
2. My total expenditures are limited. I like basic. I'm beginning to like AD. If I fought through to Primus I would have to cut costs elsewhere. Does that kill the basic game? Does RSI get more money? I can't speak for others, but my budget is determined by how much I can reasonably spend, not by a choice to not spend it in certain places. So, Yes, my choice to play in Primus is affected (or likely will be when I get to that spot) but No, my expenditures are not affected.

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