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Duel2 :: View topic - AD and stuck at 119 skills
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Stillgard
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I have a few guys in advanced stuck on 119 skills. My worst case is 24 turns stuck at 119. He did train stats for 3 of those turns so 21 turns at 119. Two of my 119ers are eligible for Primus and I am thinking of sending them there to get that last skill(plus the primus ones). My other options are to continue to be frustrated while they learn nothing, or to just burn the last one. With the changes to Primus, burning skills does not seem as bad as it used to be. What do you guys think?

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Last edited by Stillgard on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Burning skills in ADM is definitely not as bad as it used to be. I've had a few guys learn all 120 and its hard work. If that last skill is in a relatively inconsequential area like Init, Rip, or Dec, I'd definitely burn it. You can always pick it up later in Primus.

Expect to lose a lot initially if you decide to move your guy to Primus. However, the improved learning definitely beats being frustrated over learning nothing turn after turn in regular ADM.

Of your options, I would choose either stat training in ADM or moving the guy to Primus. Spending turn after turn looking for that 120th skill seems like the worst choice! Best of luck, whatever you decide.
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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I would move the guy to Primus for several reasons:
- You have the additional 5 skills per skill type to learn - increasing your maxed available skills to learn will surely help you learn that 120th skill and then eventually up to 150
- Initally, you'll generally fight warriors that have more skills than you... therefore increasing the likelikhood that you'll learn skills more rapidly.
- Increased stat train rate

Once a warrior is classified as an Eligilbe, and as a result has the ability to transfer to the DM102 Primus arena, their development is sped up greatly by making the move. As OAB previously stated.... you will take a butt whooping for a whlie until your guy develops. Keep in mind, once you're in the Primus arena, you'll be low man on the totem pole often times fighting guys with 50 to 100 more skills than you....
It's worth it in the long run imho.... have fun with him!!!

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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

We cannot add anything more than OAB and Marms did.

Good luck.

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_Buri_
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I would say that getting all 120 is old-school thinking. I did it on a lot of my guys, but that was back before the extra Primus skill learning kicked in. Back then, that was the way to go. These days, it is not. It's a lot easier to burn now, advancing your fighter faster, and get the skills back later in Primus, where you can challenge guys with 300 fights.

One thing to remember is that Eligibles, while allowed to get the extra skill learns if they go to the Primus arena, cannot get those skills in the Eligibles tourney.

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Street_Legal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If you just want to accomplish it in ADM just to say it then challenge someone you know is maxxed+ in that area or is a style that learns alot in that particular area (TPs and Parry styles for PAR; LU and SL for INI; AB for ATT, etc.). Otherwise, as the others have said, you'll drive yourself mad trying to get it. The last 5-10 are always hard and the last 3 seem near to impossible and just a waste of fights that could be spent developing stats!

Of the 3 guys I have run extensively in ADM, all LUs, the closest I have come to maxxing was Beavis (14-3996) and after almost 10 fights with no learns I just burned the last 2 ATT and 1 DEC. Next closest was Joe Satriani (11-4422) who maxxed out all but PAR, minus 1 DEF and 1 DEC I had burned in basic, I gave in early because he was at 13 PAR learned and I just burned off the last 7 PAR right away knowing PAR is least important to the style. Well not right away but I went right to stats I should say and ignored even trying to learn the last 7.

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MarmaDuke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Back in the day it was a badge of honor to learn all 120. However now with the ability to learn back "burned skills" once you're in the Primus DM102 arena, there is much less incentive to go straight skills to 120 and then burn. It is far more common to learn less than 120 these days, hopefully learning the "core skills" for that style in their entirety, and then burning to enhance those already maxed core skills. Once you hit 102, you can relearn the burns as if they never occured.

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Darque
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

What does every one believe are the "core" skills for each style. Opinions will certainly vary depending on how people run certain warriors. By core skills, I mean those skills you want to max out before you begin training stats and burning less optimal skills.

My thoughts are:

AB -- DEF, ATT

BA -- DEC, ATT, maybe INI

LU -- DEF, ATT

PL -- PAR, DEF, ATT

PR -- PAR, ATT

PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)

SL -- DEC, ATT

ST -- DEC, ATT

TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP

WS -- PAR, ATT, maybe RIP

Once again, I stress that managerial style and design goals will influence such a list. Based on my playing style and ability, the above shows what I focus upon under normal circumstances.

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Nomad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Two questions as I now have warriors struggling to get to 120 and getting close to Primus.

1. What about defense? When I first got back into the game it seemed like defense was a critical ADM skill because so many parries were getting slipped. Does that make defense a critical skill for everyone? What about my slasher who has 116 learned skills, but only 17 defense?

2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.
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Otto_X
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think many managers would rank defense as the #1 thing to be maxed out. However, it's not always an option with some styles that tend to fill out their defense last.

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Street_Legal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Here's an example that may just give you another view of it. The guy was not that great but was fairly decent and has never run in ADM. I think it exemplifies Slashers and DEFense:


Judas Priest (40-3869) ,17-11-0, 11(2)-11(1)-11-17-16(1)-15-7 SL fave learn:DEF
skills learned:19/5/16/4/8/8

This clown has a favorite learn of DEF and decides to learn it tied for 3rd with DEC and WAY behind ATT and INI. I cannot say IF the skill is important in ADM to a Slasher but I think this shows that SLs may tend to ignore it. Or so says this lone example of mine!

In Primus don't you have a shot right away to learn any skills you may burn from a stat train? It would seem so, or how would they "lock" the ability to learn it back and then unlock it? When you hit all 25s in stats? If my understanding is correct you could burn a 20 WT all the way to 25, or just to 21, and immediately start learning those burned skills back (as it counts against your "Primus skills" 21-25) the very next turn even. Is this understanding incorrect?

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Last edited by Street_Legal on Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Nomad wrote:
2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.


Nope. You can train to all 25s if you want and then learn skills and it won't handicap your warrior.
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

One Armed Bandit wrote:
Nomad wrote:
2. Once you get to Primus, do you need to then learn all skills right away before burning any more stats? I think I remember hearing this somewhere.


Nope. You can train to all 25s if you want and then learn skills and it won't handicap your warrior.


Shhh, don't reveal my secret warrior...
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Assurnasirbanipal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Darque, this is a great launching point for discussion. I loved the way he gives a nice answer, summarized by, "Learn the important skills."

There are definitely many different answers for important. Darque's answer focuses on the strengths and needs of each warrior (and I won't argue the details in this thread).

Another answer for important might be the Primus ranking of skills:
#1: Defense
<Big Gap>
#2: Attack
<HUGE ENORMOUS GAP>
#3: Parry
<GAP>
#4: Decisiveness
#5: Initiative
#6: Riposte

Darque wrote:
What does every one believe are the "core" skills for each style. Opinions will certainly vary depending on how people run certain warriors. By core skills, I mean those skills you want to max out before you begin training stats and burning less optimal skills.

My thoughts are:

AB -- DEF, ATT

BA -- DEC, ATT, maybe INI

LU -- DEF, ATT

PL -- PAR, DEF, ATT

PR -- PAR, ATT

PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)

SL -- DEC, ATT

ST -- DEC, ATT

TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP

WS -- PAR, ATT, maybe RIP

Once again, I stress that managerial style and design goals will influence such a list. Based on my playing style and ability, the above shows what I focus upon under normal circumstances.
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Managerr
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

To further clarify, if you plan on an sort of ADM TOURNAMENT career, you generally want to BURN THE LAST FEW SKILLS OFF AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

The reason for this is that the lines are strongly determined by the # of skills you have--so the strategy is to get as many value skills as you can while still staying under the skill line. You'd rather have more ATT/DEF/Core Skill, than you would Init or Rip for example.

Quote:
PS -- PAR, ATT, DEC (this is the weird one because DEC could easily replace PAR depending on how you run the warrior)


In ADM, it switches to ATT/PAR/DEF (But somewhat irrelevant as PS's and other low skill base styles can easily get whatever it wants while still staying under the line)

Quote:
ST -- DEC, ATT


For ADM. For Eligibles, I'd say you need ATT, DEF . A lot of good ADM Strikers also tend to have a lot of Parry (since they end up maxxing ST due to high Attack), so there may be a pseudo Parry build you can work with if you don't burn off too many Parry too. (I'm not going to spend years to try one though)

Quote:
TP -- PAR, DEF, maybe RIP


Parry Only. ATT more important than Defense, and you'll end up getting enough when training ST/WL/DF.

Quote:
However, it's not always an option with some styles that tend to fill out their defense last.


Let's not insult the other styles. We all know Slashers are the runt of the litter in this category.

Quote:
My other options are to continue to be frustrated while they learn nothing, or to just burn the last one.


My best advice if you have a warrior that needs to wait is to put him on maintenance and forget about him, until you're surprised one day and see that he maxxed his skills! I have a warrior that hasn't learned anything in 2 years now.
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