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DotarSojat
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Joined: Jul 08, 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Forgot about some roll ups I had, and thought I'd share:

13-6-12-10-5-12-12 to 15-6-12-13-11-12-15 Wall of Steel?

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 to 13-13-16-9-17-7-9 Lunger?

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 to 5-19-10-15-13-11-9 Wall of Steel?

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 to 8-8-14-13-17-15-9 Total Parry?

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 to 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 Slasher?

If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
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One Armed Bandit
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Posts: 2595

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

#2 would make an excellent scum TP, in my opinion:

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 --> 13-13-16-3-21-7-11 TP

One train to CN gets Tremendous hit points, then one train to ST gets Good carry. Looks solid to me.
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Street_Legal
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Joined: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 3406
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

13-6-12-10-5-12-12 to 15-6-12-13-11-12-15 Wall of Steel? not quite enough endurance or CN for a decent Wall.

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 to 13-13-16-9-17-7-9 Lunger? Probably other styles that would be better.

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 to 5-19-10-15-13-11-9 Wall of Steel? Most people demand 15 WL, unless you have a lot of both ST and CN for a WS.

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 to 8-8-14-13-17-15-9 Total Parry? More CN for a TP, most want at least 15 CN

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 to 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 Slasher? A solid SL!

My design ideas:

13-6-12-10-5-12-12 -----> 16-6-12-16-9-12-13 BA/ST (train WT to 17 and ST to 17, you could go 17 ST to start, and many would, and train the DF to 13 (but for newer managers I'd take the skills at 13 DF, off the bat,and train the ST later.

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 ----> 13-16-16-3-19-7-10 TP (train DF to 11 first then WL to 21 then skills or CN)

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 -----> 9-19-10-11-15-10-10 WS/TP (train DF to 11 first then go skills and mix in trying to get ST to 11 for better weapons, carry, and damage)

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 -----> 8-8-14-13-17-15-9 LU (I'd likely DA this one but, well I run almost everything but it's something I'd recommend DA'd, but to run it burn ST to 9 for the SS and DF up to 11 for the skills at 11 DF. You can use the LS or LO unsuited but I'd wait, in most cases, to use the LO until I got DF to 11 so your not unsuited in 2 areas- ST and DF)

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 -----> 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 SL/LU - You nailed the design on this one perfectly. I see absolutely no better option, though some might design it differently to play a particular style!

When I list more than 1 style, for example the BA/ST, I go in order of preference so BA first choice and ST second choice, and goes on, the same way, if I list 3 or more styles.

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One Armed Bandit
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

While I like your design for #5, I have a couple different thoughts. When I see 15 ST, 9+ SZ, and 7 DF, I see ML suitability (which means BA).

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 --> 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 BA

I also like 7 DF SLs, as they get HA vs light and BS vs heavy, which is really all they need. I think the SL would gain more from 3 points on SP (more Dec skills) than he would gain from 3 point on ST (one Attack skill, but no great improvement in damage or weapon suitability).

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 --> 12-9-10-17-17-12-7 SL

Those would be my top two choices, in no particular order. Nothing wrong with your 15 ST Slasher, though.
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The Consortium
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

DotarSojat wrote:
Forgot about some roll ups I had, and thought I'd share:

13-6-12-10-5-12-12 to 15-6-12-13-11-12-15 Wall of Steel?

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 to 13-13-16-9-17-7-9 Lunger?

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 to 5-19-10-15-13-11-9 Wall of Steel?

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 to 8-8-14-13-17-15-9 Total Parry?

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 to 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 Slasher?

If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.


Thoughts, suggestions, ideas, comments .........
1. Rolls
17-6-12-15-9-12-13 BA/ST
15-16-16-3-21-7-6 TP
8-19-10-15-15-10-7 LU
9-8-14-15-15-15-8 SL/ST
12-9-10-17-17-12-7 SL/LU/ST/BA
2. If a rookie, start your career on Noblish Island for great training
3. A recent article in the Noblish Newsletter on warrior design

WARRIOR DESIGN
or
HOW A 25-YEAR VETERAN DOES IT
or
NEW NOBLISH WARRIORS REVEALED

There is a purpose for writing this spotlight. It was developed to provide newer/inexperienced D2 managers with warrior design concepts and to assist newbies in observing the details of a “real-time” team who will be competing against them in their Noblish Island arena. I will discuss the following:
1. An experienced manager’s general design principles
2. The real five-warrior design (original team roll-up) ready to compete on Noblish Island
3. Summary and comments relevant to those designs
First you might ask, “Who is writing this? And I answer that I am Count Number (aka Abba Cuss), manager of Count On Me, a member of The Consortium, and a long, long time (25+ year) competitor in Duelmasters/D2. I will be overseeing this new team and will be offering you advice each round on Noblish Island. Feel free to ask me (or Jorja, or Assur) questions in the personal ads. You will get answers; most probably you will get several answers.
There is no one-and-only perfect design for any warrior. You will often find that when asking for experienced design advice, varying opinions and concepts are offered. However, there are some guidelines that each manager uses. Here are The Consortium generic design principles:
1. Design to strengths/excesses, making high roll numbers higher
2. Offensive oriented warriors need WT high to last. Design to 15, 17, 21 for skill breaks
3. All warriors except AB must have normal damage and really need good. Make certain that ST/SZ allow that and have high enough WL to bump stats if not.
4. 9 WL is the acceptable low for offensives. Some warriors can do well with 7 or 8. No lower.
5. Do not add to CN for offensives.
6. Defensive style warriors need solid WL and CN.
7. Physicals never hurt any warrior. Warriors can win early with lesser skill, but good physicals.
8. If all else fails, make the design a TP. They can win under almost any circumstance. However, they need a higher combination (total) of CN, WL, and ST.
9. If the warrior is to be long-term (meaning a godling or really nice roll), do not design a burner. (A burner is one where the manager intends to raise stats and physicals as a major strategy to winning.)
10. However, there is not a thing wrong with making a burner.
11. Have variation in styles in arenas. This allows for better challenging and matchups. (and fun trough variety.)
12. PRIMARY PRINCIPAL: Design each warrior with the idea of winning 60%+ of its fights.
Pretty simple, it would seem. Well, let’s see how I applied these principals to the Count On Me Team.
Next are listed the starting statistics (from the roll-up sheet) and the design statistics (filled out and sent in by Abba Cuss) of this team just started on Noblish Island.
A. 5-9-15-13-8-17-3 to 9-9-15-17-9-18-7 ST (striker) Design to strengths (concept #1), which is either WT or SP. Seldom do super-high speeds work out, so I selected to add to WT to the 17 break point. I need some ST and weapons, so to 9 ST, yielding the SS as long as I make the DF 7. I do bump SP to 18, getting the decise skill, since I know this has to be a fast offensive. The last point goes to get the “sorta minimum” 9 WL, and one more decise skill. He will be fast and decisive, so he is clearly a striker to me.
B. 9-9-16-3-11-14-8 to 11-15-16-3-17-14-8 TP (total parry) The very low WT, with “strengths” in WL, DF, ST, and even CN means that when I design to excesses, it is likely to be a scummy type. Knowing that, and that bumping will be the name of the game for this warrior, I add 6 to WL. I need the big CN, so 6 there. The last two go to strength, for a respectable scummy total parry. I could have added 6 to DF to enhance it to 21, but, the 21DF leads toward an offensive, an aimer, or similar, and a low wit version of those types just does not seem to work as well as needed – especially with the 60% W/L target.
C. 14-5-11-5-14-16-5 to 14-5-11-10-20-17-7 ST (striker) This could be an interesting design and a great fun warrior to manage. Add to the high WL, a prime stat. At this point I realize that I really cannot get a “nice” warrior out of this, but, by making it a burner, I can have an interesting offensive. I can leave most stats under their really intended end resultant, and with that high will, bump (raise stats) almost at will. This is why I only added 4 to WL as I intend to bump WL too. Give it 5 to WT and I can bump it to the important eleven, and spread the rest of the skills around. In the end (after bumping), this warrior will look like 15-6-11-11-21-18-9, and will probably be a pretty good battle-axe wielding striker.
D. 13-11-10-5-13-3-15 to 15-17-10-5-19-3-15 TP (total parry Another “no wit”, no speed, high will, high strength/con rollup. Shucks. While I do not want another total parry on the team, this design leads me there. If you read all the comments on warrior B above then you know all about this design.
E. 12-11-11-9-12-10-5 to 13-11-11-15-17-10-7 BA (basher) There were lots of options here, but you can see that the first thing I did was (Concept #1) optimize high WL to 17. That done, to make this a solid warrior, taking the WT to 15 was necessary. That left three points and 2 to DF (for weapons) and 1 to ST (for weapons) makes this a pretty decent basher.
Good luck competing against my Count On Me warriors. I suspect this team will meet the 60% objective and each warrior will do its part. They will be a competitive team and they do both challenge and avoid.
Now let’s take a look at the overall design tendencies for this team in this situation. We had 70 points to add to the designs. Totaled, they look like this:
ST = 9 (More than usual, probably, but a starting ST of 5, and the need to make two scum, probably make this appropriate; it is difficult to win with very low strength)
CN = 12 (SP and CN are usually the least added stats; the two TPs caused the whole twelve; usually this stat tendency is near zero, but I had two scum which will not win without con.)
SZ = 0 (Cannot add to size.)
WT = 15 (Probably one of two most valuable stats. And this team had some low WT starts. Looks good to me.)
WL = 24 (Probably one of two most valuable stats. It is difficult to win without WT AND WL.)
SP = 2 (SP and CN are usually the least added stats; looks good)
DF = 8 (DF additions are quite variable.)
The tendencies look reasonable to me, as WT and WL are prime stats, ST and DF are probably next, and CN/SP are usually least added. (Well, except for SZ!)
So there you have it: a new team; insight to warrior design; useful tidbits from an ancient old-timer. May your stay in D2 be long and prosperous, and fun.

Count Number (aka Abba Cuss)
Consortium affiliated

_________________
Ye Old Consortium Scribe & Crapmaster 2013, Crapgiver 2014
1000 ADM graduates (with 40+ manager IDs) including 105K+ fights and 68K+ wins plus 4 teams with 1000+ wins (Animal Farm DM11 @1518*; Bulldogs DM11 @ 1460; Lenpros DM30 @ 1424; Fandils @ 1336
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Assurnasirbanipal
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Joined: Oct 21, 2002
Posts: 1488
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In general, Wit, Will, Strength, and Deftness are the most important stats. It is rare that you'll want to add to speed except on an offensive warrior and then add to an even value, not an odd.

For Will, the skill breakpoints are at 7, 9, 15, 17, and 21. Most people strive to get to those breakpoints, though adding an extra point or two at 9 is a good idea.

Deftness 11 is a HUGE breakpoint. Same with Wit 11.

Strength is not so much for skills as the ability to do damage, wear armor, and wield weapons. Almost always add to 7 or higher. AB's are the only style that typically does well lower.

Consortium's article (posted above) is very good. You might check out the DM 93 articles as well.

What I'd do with these:
13-6-12-10-5-12-12 -> 15-6-12-15-9-14-13 STK/B
Low Con/Will with decent speed screams to make an offensive warrior.

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 -> 15-15-16-3-21-7-7 TP
Low wit + low speed suggests a defensive. TP's are generally the best defensive. There are several variations on this.

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 -> 10-20-10-13-10-10-11 L/B
I don't like this warrior, most likely wouldn't run it. That means I do something odd or make a basher.

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 -> 8-8-14-11-17-15-11 SL/B
The slasher is recommended because the basher has no weapons it can use. I'd make it a basher, just because I prefer them.

14-9-10-17-17-10-7 -> 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 WOS
Your style choices suggest you want a WOS. This is the guy you want to make a WOS. Give him a BS (and a shield if you like) and send him out. I like this guy.

DotarSojat wrote:
Forgot about some roll ups I had, and thought I'd share:

13-6-12-10-5-12-12 to 15-6-12-13-11-12-15 Wall of Steel?

12-10-16-3-16-7-6 to 13-13-16-9-17-7-9 Lunger?

4-19-10-10-10-10-7 to 5-19-10-15-13-11-9 Wall of Steel?

3-8-14-9-13-15-8 to 8-8-14-13-17-15-9 Total Parry?

12-9-10-11-14-9-5 to 15-9-10-17-17-9-7 Slasher?

If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
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